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| 5/17 |
| 2006/1/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41315 Activity:moderate |
1/9 Total Iraq war costs estimated to be $2 Trillion
I hope you warmongers feel like you got your money worth:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/ts_nm/iraq_cost_dc
\_ I'd delete this post not because I don't agree with you,
but because you're going to cause jblack to retaliate by
polluting motd with massive freep drivels
\_ That comes out to ~$77k per Iraqi. Not too bad in my "The Price
of Freedom According to Warmongers" guide book. What price do
*you* put on the freedom of a single person?
\_ how many civilians killed by US bombing again?
\_ You can pay it then. Don't make me do it...
\_ Umm, you call civil war freedom?
\_ Let us know when there's a civil war and we'll talk. I
certainly call the present situation a vast improvement over
the Saddam years by any measure, unless you were a Baathist
thug during that time period.
\_ What does it matter what you think? You don't live there.
I find it amazing that Americans feel they can say whether Iraqis
are better off or not.
\_ If you didn't notice 190 people were blown up last
weekend. It is a civil war. Civil wars aren't always
two armies shooting tanks at each other.
\_ Wow, a tank shooting cannon? Are the tanks crewed when
they get fired? Kind of gives a whole new meaning to
the notion of "terminally guided munitions".
\_ Think really large trebuchet.
\_ Insurgency, not civil war. Very distinct concepts here.
\_ it's like northern ireland except with a lot more
bombs plus beheadings and suicide bombings
\_ Right. An insurgency.
\_ Right. An insurgency. Use a dictionary, kid.
\_ That's not a civil war. Nothing like it. Back to
KOS for you.
\_ Definition of "civil war": http://csua.org/u/ekk
Definition of "war": http://csua.org/u/ekl
So, how exactly is this not a civil war?
\_ "civil war" cf.'s "war"
"war - 1 a (1) a state of usually open and declared
armed hostile conflict between states or nations"
(yes, I know defn 2 is much more general, but you
often use that sense in, "my sister and I are having
a war!")
So, are the Sunnis+terrorists: open (half/half),
declared conflict (yes on the terrorists, half/half
on the Sunnis), and between states/nations
(not really in a strict sense).
On the other side, I think http://m-w.com defn 1a(1) of
"war" is faulty -- the American Heritage dictionary
also includes "between ... parties", and I think
that's correct.
Also, it is 100% correct to say that the
insurgency has strong elements of a civil war --
it is an armed conflict between mostly Sunnis
and mostly Shiites/Kurds, and they're all Iraqi
citizens. -someone else
\_ huh? it's not a civil war. stupid. it's a war of
liberation to kick out American Big Oil imperialists.
I mean WTF are these people who live thousands of miles
away doing in my country, setting up torture camps,
shooting civilians, destroying cities, etc.? They
have proven to be totally incompetent in running the
country. In any case, nobody asked them to come.
yea, Saddam is a bad dude, but this is much worse.
These foreign invaders have no clue how to run the
country.
\_ Let's see, unemployment still running at 35%+, Iraqi murder
rate 4X what it was under Saddam Hussein, still no electricity
for over half the day in most of the country, oil production
actually *down* from what it was before the war, women forced back
into wearing scarves and the veil... how is this all an
improvement?
\_ Under Saddam, the south got water and electricity or not
when Saddam felt like it using basic resources as a stick
to keep the Shia in line. Under Saddam, ~5000 people/month
were killed by the government. Under Saddam, the oil money
\_ that is due to UN saction, not Saddam's fault per se.
went straight into Saddam's pockets. Under Saddam, women (of
the wrong tribe or political affiliation) were sent to rape
camps. Yeah, those were the days! Really, this whole Saddam
\_ Women enjoys much more rights and freedom under Saddam's
Iraq than most of the Arab nations... and it is getting
worse as Shiit dominate the politics
\_ Not to mention that we have brought back the torture
chambers and rape rooms. Or perhaps it is more accurate
to say they never went away, just the names of the
people running them changed.
trial thing is such a huge mistake. We should not only let
him go, but reinstate him because he ran the country so much
better. Truly you have found the answer to the ongoing
problems across the entire Middle East: install a strong man
bastard, call him "our bastard" and ignore everything as
long as the oil keeps flowing. I love you cold war warrior
types who are willing to sacrifice any number of people in
the name of "stability". Go form a political group and call
yourselves "Stability By Any Means Necessary". It fits.
\_ I will blame the gwbush administration for incredibly weak planning
and thinking that they would be able to control a tribal society
that has been fighting for hundreds of years, with a few
Marines and KBR contractors.
\_ "you cold warrior types"? It's the same damn guys, at
least at the leadership level. I never thought the
"our bastard" doctrine was acceptable, which is part
of why I don't trust a guy like Rumsfeld to have supposedly
suddenly had a change of heart. I actually supported the
idea of invading Iraq, but I don't trust anyone in this
administration to do it, now that Powell's gone, and
my mistrust is being shown to be well-placed by events
on the ground.
\_ wow! you've been brainwashed pretty well by the
Bush propaganda machine.
\_ thank you for adding absolutely nothing and disputing
nothing posted above. personal attack is not a good
way to make a point, not even on the motd, despite a
few people's opinion to the contrary.
\_ *yawn* Right, and a long unsubstantiated, vitriolic
rant contributes soooo much more. Puh-leaze.
\_ Sounds like France.
\_ Well, no. In France, it is illegal to wear the hijab.
\_ We're running a sale on Iraqis this week. So that would be
$3.95 + tax.
\_ Whoa! Really? You mean we could've done the whole thing for
only $100MM if we'd waited a few years? I feel really
stupid now. --former blood thirsty oil drenched warmonger
\_ Man, you should have been a Necromonger -- then you'd get
to keep what you kill. |
| 5/17 |
|
| news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/ts_nm/iraq_cost_dc Iraq war could top $2 trillion, far above the White House's pre-war projections, when long-term costs such as lifetime health care for thousands of wounded US soldiers are included, a study said on Monday. click here Columbia University economist Joseph E Stiglitz and Harvard lecturer Linda Bilmes included in their study disability payments for the 16,000 wounded US soldiers, about 20 percent of whom suffer serious brain or spinal injuries. They said US taxpayers will be burdened with costs that linger long after US troops withdraw. "Even taking a conservative approach, we have been surprised at how large they are," said the study, referring to total war costs. "We can state, with some degree of confidence, that they exceed a trillion dollars." Before the invasion, then-White House budget director Mitch Daniels predicted Iraq would be "an affordable endeavor" and rejected an estimate by then-White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey of total Iraq war costs at $100 billion to $200 billion as "very, very high." Unforeseen costs include recruiting to replenish a military drained by multiple tours of duty, slower long-term US economic growth and health-care bills for treating long-term mental illness suffered by war veterans. They said about 30 percent of US troops had developed mental-health problems within three to four months of returning from Iraq as of July 2005, citing Army statistics. Stiglitz, who won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2001 and has been an outspoken critic of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, and Bilmes based their projections partly on past wars and included the economic cost of higher oil prices, a bigger US budget deficit and greater global insecurity caused by the Iraq war. They said a portion of the rise in oil prices -- about 20 percent of the $25 a barrel gain in oil prices since the war began -- could be attributed directly to the conflict and that this had already cost the United States about $25 billion. "Americans are, in a sense, poorer by that amount," they said, describing that estimate as conservative. The projection of a total cost of $2 trillion assumes US troops stay in Iraq until 2010 but with steadily declining numbers each year. They projected the number of troops there in 2006 at about 136,000. Currently, the United States has 153,000 troops in Iraq. Lynch said the war in Iraq had cost $173 billion to date. Another unforeseen cost, the study said, is the loss to the US economy from injured veterans who cannot contribute as productively as they otherwise would and costs related to American civilian contractors and journalists killed in Iraq. Death benefits to military families and bonuses paid to soldiers to re-enlist and to sign up new recruits are additional long-term costs, it said. File photo shows a US soldier walking past a burning liquified petroleum gas pipeline after it was destroyed by insurgents in Bazwan village near Kirkuk, north of Baghdad January 5, 2006. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. |
| csua.org/u/ekk -> m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=civil%20war&book=Dictionary Handheld Collegiate Now you can take the Eleventh Edition with you anywhere as Franklin's new Speaking Electronic Handheld! |
| csua.org/u/ekl -> m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=war&book=Dictionary Pronunciation: 'wor Function: noun Usage: often attributive Etymology: Middle English werre, from Old North French, of Germanic origin; Handheld Collegiate Now you can take the Eleventh Edition with you anywhere as Franklin's new Speaking Electronic Handheld! |
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