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| 5/17 |
| 2005/12/2-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40822 Activity:moderate |
12/2 What a shock. Liberman's comments about Iraq were ignored after Murtha
made front page everywhere. http://newsbusters.org/node/3038
\_ it's hard to say what happened. lieberman goes over
there and thinks everything is rosy. murtha goes over
there and thinks iraq is about to dissolve into civil war.
i read the paper today and see more news of suicide bombings.
i think of how much the iraqi people must be in on it for
insurgents to attack our troops with such impunity. who is
right? and let me amend this, I cannot think of any reasonable
way for america to 'win'. I think gwbush wants to create
a democratic magic land where the kurds, sunnis and shiites all live
together in harmony and provide the US with cheap oil for
the next 50 years. he must not have noticed the sunnis and
shiites hate each other over an event that happened almost
2000 years ago, they're not going to start being nice to
each other after we throw several cluster bombs at them.
we fucked up, the sooner we're out of iraq, the sooner it
can split into three countries.
\_ Well, that's debatable, but not if one side of the debate is
refused media time. Let me amend this: I think you're wrong.
It's a shame those who try to voice the evidence they see of
things getting beter are being silenced.
\_ So if I kill someone with my barehands on national TV I
get equal time to "debate" my innocence? If I am a neo-nazi
I should get equal time to "debate" my side of the issue?
What the hell.
\_ How's it been for you under that bridge?
\_ 1) yes, absolutely you are entitled to a speedy trial by
a jury of your peers. uhm, duh? and 2) you have the
right to say what you want, but you don't have the right
to force others to listen. In this case, we're talking
about national issues of foreign policy as debated by
federal level elected officials and it is absolutely
necessary and critically important to hear all the facts
from all sides, not just the ones you want us to hear.
welcome to america.
\_ Umm.. splitting into 3 countries is pretty dang unlikely.
In case you haven't noticed, that leaves the Sunnis with no
oil. And it's not like the shia or sunni are cleanly
seperated or something.
\_ there are many examples in recent history where the only
way for ethnic groups that hate each to get along with
each other is if they are ruled by a fascist dictator
like tito or saddam. notice how the egyptians
sort of allowed democratic elections and the muslim
brotherhood, a bunch of terrorist islamic fucks, are
winning representation.
\_ I don't disagree with either point, but I don't see
how B follows from A.
\_ so you think we should have left Saddam in power to keep
order in Iraq and prevent ethnic violence?
\_ since apparently the administration in charge
is a big believer in faith based power ("If I
believe in something really hard it will come true")
yeah, we should have left Iraq alone.
\_ so you're in favor of brutal dictatorships? i was
\_ Are you chinese? Do you understand the effect
the opium trade had on China?
being sarcastic and it was a rhetorical question.
i didnt expect anyone to actually agree with the
idea that saddam was doing a good job keeping the
majority ethnic groups in line.
\_ You're trolling, right? You have to be. I just
can't accept that anyone can so badly misinterpret
what "faith guy" was saying.
\_ Not at all. He's being a twit. I'm saying
what the obvious conclusions of his points
are. In fact, I think he's either terribly
stupid or just trolling.
\_ So you're saying that Bush is equivalent to Saddam
Hussein? -not pp
\_ Wow, that's....that's quite a leap of logic there.
\_ Murtha >> Lieberman
\_ apples >> oranges
\_ yermom >> yergf
\_ Why? Lieberman was the VP candidate.
\_ http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Murtha_360_Nov302005.wmv
\_ Were you planning on summarizing the video?
\_ No.
\_ What a retard. Oil was never "supposed to pay for this
deployment". Some people were saying that should be the
case, but it was never policy.
Murtha's on crack or something. His reasoning for "Iraq
can take care of itself" is that the administration has
been wrong on other stuff. WTF?
\_ "Some people"? You mean like DoD officials TESTIFYING
BEFORE FUCKING CONGRESS?
\_ DoD people don't decide how things are funded.
"FUCKING CONGRESS" does that. Those DoD people
were giving their opinion. They are not financial
policy makers for the country in any way, shape or
form.
\_ "giving their opinion", huh? They weren't
writing motd entries. They were testifying
to congress in their official capacity, under
oath, before the policy makers made their
decision. Your above statement "it was never
policy" means nothing. It was a lie, and part
of the tactics employed to loosen the purse
strings.
\_ I shall try again: Congress decides how to
spend money, not the DoD. Congress decides
how to fund a war, not the DoD. Congress
controls the purse strings, not the DoD.
The brass can testify to anything they like
and if Congress chose to, they could follow
that advice and slap an oil tax on Iraq to
pay for the war, but Congress chose not to.
Who exactly lied? Who exactly said Iraqi
oil dollars would be used to pay for the war?
\_ Because someone changed their minds about the war. Lieberman has
always supported it.
\_ Lieberman got an OpEd in the WSJ. That hardly qualifies as being
ignored.
\_ That hardly qualifies as the MSM paying any attention especially
compared to the incredible press Murtha got. BTW, who was
Murtha before they dug him up and put words in his mouth? I've
never heard of him before. Have you?
\_ Are you going to try and pretend that the pro-war position
does not get any press? Bush alone got more lines of newsprint
than Murtha did. Lieberman is just another shill for the
pro-war, pro-torture crowd, so naturally he has to compete
with the rest of you. And no, I had not heard of Murtha
before. But I had not heard of Wolfowitz before he started
a war for no good reason whatsoever either.
\_ I'm stating flat out that a (D) Senator with along record
in office who has been to Iraq 4 times in the last 1.5
years gets ignored by the MSM when a no name like Murtha
gets mega air time every day after 1 visit. I leave it to
the reader to figure out why this is so. I'm going to
ignore the trollish parts of your commentary that you
stuck in to amuse yourself. |
| 5/17 |
|
| newsbusters.org/node/3038 After leading their evening newscasts with Democratic Congressman John Murthas call for a withdrawal from Iraq, th e ABC and CBS shows on Tuesday skipped Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman s disclosure that, after a recent trip to Iraq, he saw "real progress" a nd argued against withdrawing troops. The NBC Nightly News merely gave L ieberman a brief soundbite. But on Wednesdays Tonight Show on NBC, Jay Leno raised the perspective of the 2000 Democratic Partys vice presiden tial candidate with Howard Dean, the Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Leno characterized Liebermans position as one which more o r less agrees with the President as he pressed Dean: How about Joe Lie berman now? And he more or less agrees with the Preside nt, correct?" Dean, who dismissed Bushs speech as repetitive dribble, began his answer: Everybody gets to march to their own drummer in this party... Broadc ast Nets, Which Led With Murtha, Ignore Lieberman. Twelve days ago when Democratic Congressman John Murtha, who had long be en critical of the Bush administrations running of the war, advocated withdrawing troops from Iraq, the ABC, CBS and NBC evening newscasts al l emphasized his importance and influence as they led with his press co nference. CBS showcased Murthas attack on Vice President Dick Cheneys lack of military service and ABC ran a 90-second excerpt of Murtha. Our Troops Must Stay) from the 2000 Democratic vice presidential c andidate, Senator Joe Lieberman, in which he cited real progress in I raq and argued against withdrawing troops, ABC and CBS didnt utter a s yllable about his assessment. The NBC Nightly News, at least, squeezed in a soundbite from Lieberman, though David Gregory also highlighted a puny protest as he relayed how opposition to the war followed the Pres ident today to a Denver fundraiser, as more than a hundred angry critic s met Mr Bush's motorcade. In his op-ed, Lieberman had bemoaned: Wha t a colossal mistake it would be for America's bipartisan political lea dership to choose this moment in history to lose its will and, in the f amous phrase, to seize defeat from the jaws of the coming victory. ABCs World News Tonight, which led with multiple stories from New Orlea ns on the three-month anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, held its covera ge of Iraq to a brief item on peace activists taken hostage and ancho r Elizabeth Vargas provided a 20-second preview of Bushs Wednesday spe ech on his Iraq policy. Snowstorms topped the CBS Evening News before David Martin provided a st ory on how Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld rattled off signs of progress , which Martin ran through. For all the progress cited by administrat ion officials, Martin then ominously concluded, one key factor shows no sign of improving: For the past two months, an average of three Amer icans has been killed each day in Iraq, and that's the highest since Ja nuary." Anchor Bob Schieffer then turned to Lara Logan in Baghdad who s aid one of Rumsfelds assertions simply isn't true and undermined a c ouple of others. END of Excerpt As for newspapers, those which put Murtha on the front page, werent so e xcited about Liebermans position. The relevant exchange from the November 30 Tonight Show with Jay Leno on NBC: Jay Leno: Let's talk about some of the issues here. Dean: I thought it was his usual nonsense, and repetitive dribble that we've heard for the last two-and-a-half years. He's defending a strate gy that was built on things that weren't true, and, of course, we're in trouble. And I think staying the course is not a strategy, especially when you didn't tell the truth to get us there in first place. Leno: Well, I mean, he came back, and he's been there a few times to Ir aq. Dean: Everybody gets to march to their own drummer in this party. What we need to do is have a real strategy to make sure that we have the str ategic redeployment. We need not to have 150,000 troops that are being attacked every single day in Iraq. We shouldn't have been there in the first place and the fact is, we've made a big mess over there. We've cr eated more of a danger than there was in the first place, and probably one of the results is that we did something Iran couldnt do, we helped them win their objectives within the Iran-Iraq war. So, we're in a lot of trouble in Iraq and John Murtha's right, we ought not to be hurting more Americans, and having more American wounded kids come home, and b e in the kind of position they're in. stantheman86 Says: December 1, 2005 - 23:02 The media is corrupt about Lieberman! Joe Lieberman is the closest thing there is to a Democratic senator I can trust for my GOP-aligned politica l beliefs; he was one of the Senators that championed the video game rat ings bill back in the 1990s (the other was Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, also a Democrat). And even more startling, there were "cheers and applause" f rom the audience of the Tonight Show, which allows me to assume that the majority of the people who come to see Jay Leno in person lean to the f ar left. I might as well switch to Letterman (I like to hear and watch h is Top Ten lists anyway). reply Anonymous (not verified) Says: December 1, 2005 - 23:39 Letterman is much worse,,,,,,,,, From the November 30 Late Show with David Letterman, the "Top Ten Ne w President Bush Strategies for Victory in Iraq." "Make an even larger 'Mission Accomplished' sign" 9 "Encourage Iraqis to settle their feud like Dave and Oprah" 8 "Put that go-getter Michael Brown in charge" 7 "Launch slogan, 'It's not Iraq, it's Weraq'" 6 "Just do whatever he did when he captured Osama" 5 "A little more vacation time at the ranch to clear his head" 4 "Pack on a quick 30 pounds and trade places with Jeb" 3 "Wait, you mean it ain't going well?" Hilary is a Shim Says: December 2, 2005 - 09:28 Man Politics can be funny, but apparently not that night on Letterman. All the late night shows are trying to copy the once-innovative (and now rather tired) John Stewart. And you know that the majority of the 20-somethings that populate these a udiences cannot get their asses to the polls each November, so who cares , right? reply Anonymous (not verified) Says: December 2, 2005 - 20:00 Aside from his looks I never considered Letterman to be funny. The guy i s an absolute idiot who has turned his handicap into a large financial g ain. His continued presence on late night TV tells a lot about the inte llect of the viewers. jkwtrading Says: December 2, 2005 - 00:13 "And even more startling, there were "cheers and applause" from the audie nce of the Tonight Show, which allows me to assume that the majority of the people who come to see Jay Leno in person lean to the far left." as Leno's audience is quite small in person, it would not be difficult to do so. reply anon1 (not verified) Says: December 2, 2005 - 01:12 jkw- I thought they just throw these tickets out at Hollywood & Highland to th e gutterpunks and any tourist walking by. Truestar Says: December 2, 2005 - 07:12 Howard Dean: "Everybody gets to march to their own drummer in this party." The perfect reply from a man with no answers, other than to attack a Pres ident who doesn't happen to be Dem. I recognize there are some "own drum mers" within the Rep Party. He's a doctor, b ut he's apparently programmed politically to ignore cancer. In fact, he is a cancer as far as the war on terror, and the war in Iraq is concerne d Howard Dean is a complete and utter Ass. He was trained to Heal, but he's absolutely clueless about how to do the same politically. But given how outstandingly incompetent he is as a politician, I think I might think twice about him as a doctor. reply LOL (not verified) Says: December 2, 2005 - 08:36 Howard Dean is also a liar. As I've posted before, a Democratic Party Se cretary here in Connecticut recently called for Joe Leiberman to be char ged with "war crimes". In her letter to the editor, printed by the extr emely liberal Hartford Courant, she also called Mr Leiberman several nas ty names. He has always been popular with both parties here until recen tly. That's what refusing to walk in lock-step with the Party Platform gets you among the Democrats. moderate to profane S... |