| WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ | |
 http://csua.com/feed/ | |
| ||||||
| 5/25 |
| 2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Religion] UID:40573 Activity:moderate |
11/14 trick to weed out radical muslims in bay area..
what if someone just rips apart the koran in front
of a mosque... would that bring out the outrage and rioting
from radical muslims in the bay area or will this person
be put in prison for a hate crime?
\_ If you did the same thing with a bible in front of a
church, you'll get a lot of protest but I don't think
you will out anyone radical.
\- the logging motd is actually a trick to get idiots
to reveal themselves.
\_ i am not a radical muslim, but i would consider beating the
shit out of you for being an idiot.
\_ If I saw you beating the shit out of OP for ripping up a koran,
I'd jump in and beat the shit out of you. So now you know how
to bring radical atheists who believe in freedom of speech out
in the open. Oh yeah, I almost forgot--fuck you!
\_ I'd help OP beat the shit out of you, just for shits and
giggles and because it's the cool thing to do. -John
\_ I can take any three of you with my knife, which is
*always* at the ready. I'm suprised you would side with the
jesus-nazis.
\_ I think you have become confused. In the hypothetical
brawl, I'm on the same side as OP. I'll side with pretty
much anyone who pisses off a Christian or a Muslim. I'm
guessing mr. "beat the shit out of" is a Christian.
\_ Oh, I lost track of who was for or against what a few
posts ago. I just think it would be fun to get in a
fight with a bunch of morons beating on each other
while yelling religious profanities. -John
\_ sure you're not....
\_ and you would go to prison.
\_ Not necessarily, actually. If you provoke someone into
fighting you, the cops may actually opt to give the other
a fight, the cops may actually opt to give the other
guy a lesser charge or perhaps charge you both with something.
\_ Don't be an idiot. I can destroy a Koran if I like as an
expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser
expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser, noted
constitutional scholar.
\_ I'm not being an idiot -- you're not understanding my
point (which is perhaps my fault for being vague). Just
because you didn't throw the first punch doesn't mean
can't and won't be held accountable for your
you can't and won't be held accountable for your
participation in a physical altercation. I'll readily
acknowledge that this is OT, though - since the OP has
has made it clear that his intention is to 'rip up a
koran and magically summon muslim terrorist 20-ft
radius' or something. Sorry for the confusion.
\- you may be interested in Beauharnais v. Illinois
and more directly relevantly Chaplinsky v. NH.
i dont remember the exact details of Terminilello
but that may be on point too. ok tnx. --psb
\_ Huh -- interesting reading. There is some mention
of 'fighting words' in the Chaplinsky case, which
is what I was attempting to point out in my above
post. If I have the time, I'd dig up the exact
California Penal codes refer deal with this case.
Thanks for posting.
post. If I have the time, I'll dig up the exact
California Penal codes which deal with this
situation. Thanks for posting.
\- just as obscenity or symbolic speech or
advocacy of illegal action or libel are
subtopics of 1st amd jurisprudence/free
speech doctrine, "fighting words" is too,
although not as important an area.
these are sort of old cases however, so it
is unclear what their current status is.
there are lots of lower ct decisions about
yelling "fuck you" or "unhand me you nazi"
or "you have a fruitcake relig" type things
but much of this is probably not settled by
the USSC.
\_ 1. Cal. Penal Code may make this a crime, but
the 1st is incorporated so state law cannot
abridge the protection provided by the 1st.
(See Duncan, 391 US 145).
\- i thought CA const had higher protections
than 1st+incorp. i believe that came up
in pruneyard v. robins. although the
particular areas of greater protection
may not be relevant to this context.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1
2. The 9th Cir's Barnett (667 F2d 835) theory
(also 4th Cir in Rice, 128 F3d 233) is prob.
not applicable here IF the law directly
regulates speech.
3. Chaplinsky is probably no longer good law
b/c of Brandenburg (395 US 444), Hess (414
US 105) and Claiborne Hardware (458 US 886).
Under the current std to show that the
speech is not protected, it must be shown
that the speech was intended (subjectively)
to produce "imminent lawless conduct" and
did or was likely to produce such conduct.
Seeing as the USSC has NEVER found such
conduct (Hess made a "threat" in front of
cops, and the ppl in Claiborne Hardware
said they would beat up anyone who crossed
the picket line), ripping up a koran or
a bible infront of a mosque/church wouldn't
qualify.
\_ I agree with your interpretation of speech
here but respectfully submit that the action
proposed is much more significant. That
said, perhaps still not enough to warrant
revocation of protection. Would love to
see a case where a flag burner was assaulted
for more relevant comparison.
4. I am not sure who the bigger idiot is here;
the person who wants to rip up the koran,
or the person who thinks that the free
exercise of one's 1st amend. right must be
deterred w/ physical violence. If your ideas
are superior to this fool's ideas, they why
don't you compete w/ him and win in the
marketplace of ideas?
[ Perhaps I am the biggest idiot of all for
even responding ]
\_ It sounds like you have no clue what a 'radical muslim' is.
I don't think picking a fight with a guy proves anything
other than how stupid and misguided you are. sorry.
\_ "... but I would consider beating the shit out of
you..." would result in you going to prison. What part
of that don't you understand?
\_ The part where that proves he's a 'radical muslim'.
\_ It sounds antagonistic for no particular reason. If the best way
we have to find radical muslim terrorists is making an art show out
of ripping up a Koran, we're doomed and should just start praying
east 3 times a day and save the hassle.
\_ Who's your favorite prayer carpet vendor?
\_ Omar's Carpetorium down on 8th street. He's working on his
website but you can just go down there.
\_ Wouldn't it be easier just to setup a suicide bomber recruitment
center and arrest those who are willing to strap bombs to
themselves?
\_ Arrest them? There's a simpler solution.
\_ One might even say a 'Final Solution'? |
| 5/25 |
|
| www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1 CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SECTION 1 All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. A law may not restrain or abridge liberty of speech or press. A publisher, editor, reporter, or other person connected with or employed upon a newspaper, magazine, or other periodical publication, or by a press association or wire service, or any person who has been so connected or employed, shall not be adjudged in contempt by a judicial, legislative, or administrative body, or any other body having the power to issue subpoenas, for refusing to disclose the source of any information procured while so connected or employed for publication in a newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication, or for refusing to disclose any unpublished information obtained or prepared in gathering, receiving or processing of information for communication to the public. Nor shall a radio or television news reporter or other person connected with or employed by a radio or television station, or any person who has been so connected or employed, be so adjudged in contempt for refusing to disclose the source of any information procured while so connected or employed for news or news commentary purposes on radio or television, or for refusing to disclose any unpublished information obtained or prepared in gathering, receiving or processing of information for communication to the public. As used in this subdivision, "unpublished information" includes information not disseminated to the public by the person from whom disclosure is sought, whether or not related information has been disseminated and includes, but is not limited to, all notes, outtakes, photographs, tapes or other data of whatever sort not itself disseminated to the public through a medium of communication, whether or not published information based upon or related to such material has been disseminated. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. The people have the right of access to information concerning the conduct of the people's business, and, therefore, the meetings of public bodies and the writings of public officials and agencies shall be open to public scrutiny. A statute, court rule, or other authority, including those in effect on the effective date of this subdivision, shall be broadly construed if it furthers the people's right of access, and narrowly construed if it limits the right of access. A statute, court rule, or other authority adopted after the effective date of this subdivision that limits the right of access shall be adopted with findings demonstrating the interest protected by the limitation and the need for protecting that interest. Nothing in this subdivision supersedes or modifies the right of privacy guaranteed by Section 1 or affects the construction of any statute, court rule, or other authority to the extent that it protects that right to privacy, including any statutory procedures governing discovery or disclosure of information concerning the official performance or professional qualifications of a peace officer. Nothing in this subdivision supersedes or modifies any provision of this Constitution, including the guarantees that a person may not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or denied equal protection of the laws, as provided in Section 7 This subdivision does not repeal or nullify, expressly or by implication, any constitutional or statutory exception to the right of access to public records or meetings of public bodies that is in effect on the effective date of this subdivision, including, but not limited to, any statute protecting the confidentiality of law enforcement and prosecution records. Nothing in this subdivision repeals, nullifies, supersedes, or modifies protections for the confidentiality of proceedings and records of the Legislature, the Members of the Legislature, and its employees, committees, and caucuses provided by Section 7 of Article IV, state law, or legislative rules adopted in furtherance of those provisions; nor does it affect the scope of permitted discovery in judicial or administrative proceedings regarding deliberations of the Legislature, the Members of the Legislature, and its employees, committees, and caucuses. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. This liberty of conscience does not excuse acts that are licentious or inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. The Legislature shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. A person is not incompetent to be a witness or juror because of his or her opinions on religious beliefs. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. Soldiers may not be quartered in any house in wartime except as prescribed by law, or in peacetime without the owner's consent. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. Involuntary servitude is prohibited except to punish crime. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. In enforcing this subdivision or any other provision of this Constitution, no court of this State may impose upon the State of California or any public entity, board, or official any obligation or responsibility with respect to the use of pupil school assignment or pupil transportation, except to remedy a specific violation by such party that would also constitute a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution, and unless a federal court would be permitted under federal decisional law to impose that obligation or responsibility upon such party to remedy the specific violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution. Except as may be precluded by the Constitution of the United States, every existing judgment, decree, writ, or other order of a court of this State, whenever rendered, which includes provisions regarding pupil school assignment or pupil transportation, or which requires a plan including any such provisions shall, upon application to a court having jurisdiction by any interested person, be modified to conform to the provisions of this subdivision as amended, as applied to the facts which exist at the time of such modification. In all actions or proceedings arising under or seeking application of the amendments to this subdivision proposed by the Legislature at its 1979-80 Regular Session, all courts, wherein such actions or proceedings are or may hereafter be pending, shall give such actions or proceedings first precedence over all other civil actions therein. Nothing herein shall prohibit the governing board of a school district from voluntarily continuing or commencing a school integration plan after the effective date of this subdivision as amended. In amending this subdivision, the Legislature and people of the State of California find and declare that this amendment is necessary to serve compelling public interests, including those of making the most effective use of the limited financial resources now and prospectively available to support public education, maximizing the educational opportunities and protecting the health and safety of all public school pupils, enhancing the ability of parents to participate in the educational process, preserving harmony and tranquility in this State and its public schools, preventing the waste of scarce fuel resources, and protecting the environment. A citizen or class of citizens may not be granted privileges or immunities not granted on the same terms to all citizens. Privileges or immunities granted by the Legislature may be altered or revoked. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. A person may not be imprisoned in a civil action for debt or tort, or in peacetime for a militia fine. CA... |