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| 5/17 |
| 2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Religion] UID:40573 Activity:moderate |
11/14 trick to weed out radical muslims in bay area..
what if someone just rips apart the koran in front
of a mosque... would that bring out the outrage and rioting
from radical muslims in the bay area or will this person
be put in prison for a hate crime?
\_ If you did the same thing with a bible in front of a
church, you'll get a lot of protest but I don't think
you will out anyone radical.
\- the logging motd is actually a trick to get idiots
to reveal themselves.
\_ i am not a radical muslim, but i would consider beating the
shit out of you for being an idiot.
\_ If I saw you beating the shit out of OP for ripping up a koran,
I'd jump in and beat the shit out of you. So now you know how
to bring radical atheists who believe in freedom of speech out
in the open. Oh yeah, I almost forgot--fuck you!
\_ I'd help OP beat the shit out of you, just for shits and
giggles and because it's the cool thing to do. -John
\_ I can take any three of you with my knife, which is
*always* at the ready. I'm suprised you would side with the
jesus-nazis.
\_ I think you have become confused. In the hypothetical
brawl, I'm on the same side as OP. I'll side with pretty
much anyone who pisses off a Christian or a Muslim. I'm
guessing mr. "beat the shit out of" is a Christian.
\_ Oh, I lost track of who was for or against what a few
posts ago. I just think it would be fun to get in a
fight with a bunch of morons beating on each other
while yelling religious profanities. -John
\_ sure you're not....
\_ and you would go to prison.
\_ Not necessarily, actually. If you provoke someone into
fighting you, the cops may actually opt to give the other
a fight, the cops may actually opt to give the other
guy a lesser charge or perhaps charge you both with something.
\_ Don't be an idiot. I can destroy a Koran if I like as an
expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser
expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser, noted
constitutional scholar.
\_ I'm not being an idiot -- you're not understanding my
point (which is perhaps my fault for being vague). Just
because you didn't throw the first punch doesn't mean
can't and won't be held accountable for your
you can't and won't be held accountable for your
participation in a physical altercation. I'll readily
acknowledge that this is OT, though - since the OP has
has made it clear that his intention is to 'rip up a
koran and magically summon muslim terrorist 20-ft
radius' or something. Sorry for the confusion.
\- you may be interested in Beauharnais v. Illinois
and more directly relevantly Chaplinsky v. NH.
i dont remember the exact details of Terminilello
but that may be on point too. ok tnx. --psb
\_ Huh -- interesting reading. There is some mention
of 'fighting words' in the Chaplinsky case, which
is what I was attempting to point out in my above
post. If I have the time, I'd dig up the exact
California Penal codes refer deal with this case.
Thanks for posting.
post. If I have the time, I'll dig up the exact
California Penal codes which deal with this
situation. Thanks for posting.
\- just as obscenity or symbolic speech or
advocacy of illegal action or libel are
subtopics of 1st amd jurisprudence/free
speech doctrine, "fighting words" is too,
although not as important an area.
these are sort of old cases however, so it
is unclear what their current status is.
there are lots of lower ct decisions about
yelling "fuck you" or "unhand me you nazi"
or "you have a fruitcake relig" type things
but much of this is probably not settled by
the USSC.
\_ 1. Cal. Penal Code may make this a crime, but
the 1st is incorporated so state law cannot
abridge the protection provided by the 1st.
(See Duncan, 391 US 145).
\- i thought CA const had higher protections
than 1st+incorp. i believe that came up
in pruneyard v. robins. although the
particular areas of greater protection
may not be relevant to this context.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1
2. The 9th Cir's Barnett (667 F2d 835) theory
(also 4th Cir in Rice, 128 F3d 233) is prob.
not applicable here IF the law directly
regulates speech.
3. Chaplinsky is probably no longer good law
b/c of Brandenburg (395 US 444), Hess (414
US 105) and Claiborne Hardware (458 US 886).
Under the current std to show that the
speech is not protected, it must be shown
that the speech was intended (subjectively)
to produce "imminent lawless conduct" and
did or was likely to produce such conduct.
Seeing as the USSC has NEVER found such
conduct (Hess made a "threat" in front of
cops, and the ppl in Claiborne Hardware
said they would beat up anyone who crossed
the picket line), ripping up a koran or
a bible infront of a mosque/church wouldn't
qualify.
\_ I agree with your interpretation of speech
here but respectfully submit that the action
proposed is much more significant. That
said, perhaps still not enough to warrant
revocation of protection. Would love to
see a case where a flag burner was assaulted
for more relevant comparison.
4. I am not sure who the bigger idiot is here;
the person who wants to rip up the koran,
or the person who thinks that the free
exercise of one's 1st amend. right must be
deterred w/ physical violence. If your ideas
are superior to this fool's ideas, they why
don't you compete w/ him and win in the
marketplace of ideas?
[ Perhaps I am the biggest idiot of all for
even responding ]
\_ It sounds like you have no clue what a 'radical muslim' is.
I don't think picking a fight with a guy proves anything
other than how stupid and misguided you are. sorry.
\_ "... but I would consider beating the shit out of
you..." would result in you going to prison. What part
of that don't you understand?
\_ The part where that proves he's a 'radical muslim'.
\_ It sounds antagonistic for no particular reason. If the best way
we have to find radical muslim terrorists is making an art show out
of ripping up a Koran, we're doomed and should just start praying
east 3 times a day and save the hassle.
\_ Who's your favorite prayer carpet vendor?
\_ Omar's Carpetorium down on 8th street. He's working on his
website but you can just go down there.
\_ Wouldn't it be easier just to setup a suicide bomber recruitment
center and arrest those who are willing to strap bombs to
themselves?
\_ Arrest them? There's a simpler solution.
\_ One might even say a 'Final Solution'? |
| 5/17 |
|
| www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1 CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SECTION 1 All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS SEC. A law may not restrain or abridge liberty of speech or press. 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