Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 40521
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2005/11/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40521 Activity:nil
11/9    NBC - Wall Street Journal poll
        "Fifty-seven percent believe [Bush] deliberately misled people to make
        the case for war, compared with 35 percent who say he gave the most
        accurate information he had."
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9981177
        \_ Did the poll ask if people thought misleading the American public
           on going to war is worse than misleading the American public about
           a blowjob?
           \_ That was the poll about Libby's indictment vs. Clinton's lies.
              Duh!
        \_ Why should going to war be decided by the uninformed masses based on
           what sounds good to them? -not tom
           \_ We should decide going/not going based on polls and what the
              NYT editorial page says.
        \_ Perhaps they should consider:
        http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/podhoretz1205advance.html
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
7/21    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cold_War_pilot_defections
        This week's food for thought, brought to you by People's
        Republic of Berkeley: Did you know that many US pilots defected to
        communist Cuba?  South Korea pilots defected to communist
        North Korea? Iran<->Iraq pilots defected to each other?
        W Germany pilots defected to E Germany? Taiwan/ROC pilots
	...
2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
	...
2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
        http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
           should never admit mistakes.
           \_ Most "tea party" conservatives still support the war. It is the
              weak-kneed moderates that have turned against America.
	...
2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
2/16    "Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq"
        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Duh.  the best thing that could ever happen to a country is
           the US declaring war on it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
           the US winning a war with it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
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           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/25/opinion/1248069087414/my-tortured-decision.html
        Where is the apology jblack?
	...
2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
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        \_ When we fight with Red China, what nation will we use as a proxy?
	...
2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
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        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
2009/10/1-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:53421 Activity:kinda low
10/1    Signs that Communist China is really opening up!
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           \_ This unit has unusually good drill and ceremony discipline.
	...
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www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9981177
Mark Murray Political reporter Democrats might be overstating that their gubernatorial victories Tuesday in New Jersey and Virginia are glaring signs for next year's midterm co ngressional elections and beyond, but one thing is pretty clear: Preside nt Bush and the GOP seem to be mired in political quicksand. The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, released Wednesday night, f inds that all five of Bush's job approval ratings - on overall job perfo rmance, the economy, foreign policy, terrorism and Iraq - are at all-tim e lows in the survey. In addition, the CIA leak scandal seems to be taki ng a toll on the administration, with nearly 80 percent believing the in dictment of Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scoote r" Libby, is a serious matter, and with Bush experiencing a 17-point dro p since January in those who see him as honest and straightforward. With the midterms a year away, these numbers could spell trouble for the GOP. "These are not good times for Republicans," says Republican pollste r Bill McInturff, who conducted the survey with Democratic pollster Pete r D Hart. "This is a very unhappy electorate that's going to be unstabl e, and they are terrifically unstable numbers for a Republican majority. " Perhaps the best news for Republicans in the poll is that Democrats aren' t necessarily faring much better. "Both parties are having difficulties, " McInturff observes. According to the poll, Bush's approval rating stands at an all-time low o f 38 percent, a one-point decline since October; in fact, this is the th ird consecutive NBC/Journal survey showing Bush at an all-time low on hi s job approval. And it doesn't stop there: Approval for his handling of the economy (34 percent), foreign policy (35 percent), terrorism (39 per cent), and Iraq (32 percent) have all hit rock bottom. A day later, Libby was indicted b y special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald on charges of perjury and obstructi on of justice in the CIA leak investigation. Don't look for a female president in 2008 Indeed, Iraq - which has emerged as the public's top priority in the poll - has become a particularly thorny issue for Bush. Fifty-seven percent believe he deliberately misled people to make the case for war, compared with 35 percent who say he gave the most accurate information he had. I n addition, 58 percent are less confident the war will come to a success ful conclusion, and 57 percent say the United States should reduce the n umber of US troops there. The CIA leak investigation also seems to be dogging the Bush administrati on. Seventy-nine percent think that Libby's indictment is a serious matt er. And Libby's former boss, Cheney, also hasn't emerged unscathed. That's a significant shift since January, wh en he was viewed positively by a 42-to 41-percent margin. Democratic pollster Jay Campbell of Hart Research notes that Americans ar e paying attention to this CIA leak investigation. So are Democrats poised to take advantage of this situation and pick up s eats in the 2006 congressional elections? While the pol l shows that a plurality of 43 percent views the Republican Party negati vely, the Democratic Party doesn't fare much better - just 33 percent vi ew them positively, vs.
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www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/podhoretz1205advance.html
Norman Podhoretz Among the many distortions, misrepresentations, and outright falsificatio ns that have emerged from the debate over Iraq, one in particular stands out above all others. This is the charge that George W Bush misled us into an immoral and/or unnecessary war in Iraq by telling a series of li es that have now been definitively exposed. What makes this charge so special is the amazing success it has enjoyed i n getting itself established as a self-evident truth even though it has been refuted and discredited over and over again by evidence and argumen t alike. In this it resembles nothing so much as those animated cartoon characters who, after being flattened, blown up, or pushed over a cliff, always spring back to life with their bodies perfectly intact. Perhaps, like those cartoon characters, this allegation simply cannot be killed off, no matter what. Nevertheless, I want to take one more shot at exposing it for the lie tha t it itself really is. Although doing so will require going over ground that I and many others have covered before, I hope that revisiting this well-trodden terrain may also serve to refresh memories that have grown dim, to clarify thoughts that have grown confused, and to revive outrage that has grown commensurately dulled. The main lie that George W Bush is accused of telling us is that Sadda m Hussein possessed an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, or WMD as they have invariably come to be called. From this followed the subsidia ry lie that Iraq under Saddams regime posed a two-edged mortal threat . On the one hand, we were informed, there was a distinct (or even immi nent) possibility that Saddam himself would use these weapons against u s and/or our allies; and on the other hand, there was the still more dan gerous possibility that he would supply them to terrorists like those wh o had already attacked us on 9/11 and to whom he was linked. This entire scenario of purported deceit has been given a new lease on li fe by the indictment in late October of I Lewis (Scooter) Libby, then c hief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Libby stands accused of mak ing false statements to the FBI and of committing perjury in testifying before a grand jury that had been convened to find out who in the Bush a dministration had outed Valerie Plame, a CIA agent married to the reti red ambassador Joseph C Wilson, IV. The supposed purpose of leaking thi s classified information to the press was to retaliate against Wilson fo r having debunked (in his words) the lies that led to war. Now, as it happens, Libby was not charged with having outed Plame but onl y with having lied about when and from whom he first learned that she wo rked for the CIA. And people who believe fervently in the war effo rt, people who oppose it, people who have mixed feelings about it shoul d not look to this indictment for any resolution of how they feel or an y vindication of how they feel. This is simply an indictment that says, in a national-security investiga tion about the compromise of a CIA officers identity that may have tak en place in the context of a very heated debate over the war, whether s ome persona person, Mr Libbylied or not. his case is bigger than the leak of classified information. It is abo ut how the Bush White House manufactured and manipulated intelligence i n order to bolster its case for the war in Iraq and to discredit anyone who dared to challenge the President. Yet even stipulatingwhich I do only for the sake of argumentthat no wea pons of mass destruction existed in Iraq in the period leading up to the invasion, it defies all reason to think that Bush was lying when he ass erted that they did. But it is as close to certainty as we can get that Bush believed in th e truth of what he was saying about WMD in Iraq. George Tenet, his own CIA direct or, assured him that the case was a slam dunk. This phrase would later become notorious, but in using it, Tenet had the backing of all fifteen agencies involved in gathering intelligence for the United States. In t he National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, one of the conclusions offered with high confide nce was that Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological , nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions. The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and yesFrance all agreed with this judgment. And even Hans Blixwho headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had compli ed with the demands of the Security Council that he get rid of the weapo ns of mass destruction he was known to have had in the pastlent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion: The discovery of a number of 122-mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. Th is was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have bee n moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not hav e had such munitions. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather poin ts to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unacc ounted for. Blix now claims that he was only being cautious here, but if, as he now also adds, the Bush administration misled itself in interpreting the evidence before it, he at the very least lent it a helping hand. So, once again, did the British, the French, and the Germans, all of whom signed on in advance to Secretary of State Colin Powells reading of th e satellite photos he presented to the UN in the period leading up to th e invasion. Powell himself and his chief of staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, n ow feel that this speech was the low point of his tenure as Secretary of State. But Wilkerson (in the process of a vicious attack on the Preside nt, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense for getting us into Iraq) is forced to acknowledge that the Bush administration did not lac k for company in interpreting the available evidence as it did: I cant tell you why the French, the Germans, the Brits, and us thought that most of the material, if not all of it, that we presented at the U N on 5 February 2003 was the truth. when you see a satellite photograph of all the signs of the chemical -weapons ASPAmmunition Supply Pointwith chemical weapons, and you mat ch all those signs with your matrix on what should show a chemical ASP, and theyre there, you have to conclude that its a chemical ASP, espe cially when you see the next satellite photograph which shows the UN in spectors wheeling in their white vehicles with black markings on them t o that same ASP, and everything is changed, everything is clean. Going on to shoot down a widespread impression, Wilkerson informs us that even the State Departments Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) w as convinced: People say, well, INR dissented. INR dissented t hat the nuclear program was up and running. central to the argu ment that Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear-weapons program. INR is not persuaded that the tubes in question are intended for use as centrifuge rotors . But, according to Wilkerson, The French came in in the middle of my deliberations at the CIA and said , we have just spun aluminum tubes, and by God, we did it to this RPM, et cetera, et cetera, and it was all, you know, proof positive that the aluminum tubes were not for mortar casings or artillery casings, they were for centrifuges. Otherwise, why would you have such exquisite inst ruments? In short, and whether or not it included the secret heart of Hans Blix, the consensus of the intelligence community, as Wilkerson puts it, was overwhelming in the period leading up to the invasion of Iraq that Sad dam definitely had an arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, and th at he was also in all probability well on the way to rebuilding the nucl ear capability that the Israelis had damaged by bombing the Osirak react or in 1981. Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. In the late s...