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| 2005/11/9-11 [Politics/Domestic/California/Prop, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:40520 Activity:moderate |
11/9 Why did people vote against the teacher "5 year probation" prop?
Seems like only incompetent teachers should worry about that.
Maybe they miscalculated and "4 years" would have passed?
\_ Maybe it was a combination of people thinking the current two-year
probation period was enough and hating Ah-nold.
\_ Why did people love him before but hate him now? I haven't really
been paying attention.
\_ it really started to turn when he decided to mess with the
nurses / teachers / firefighters / police.
and then people realized he was doing the same ol' "i'm
ah-nold" routine, without providing any substance behind the
muscle. and then people realized that it was the CA
Republican party that was controlling his agenda.
light at the top, actually operated by people smarter than
him, just like dubya.
\_ Yet here were are with the same old status quo and
\_ Yet here we are with the same old status quo and
looming deficits and blah blah. Poltics sucks.
\_ huh?
looming deficits and blah blah. Politics sucks.
\_ I liked this story:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teacher10nov10,0,7202054.story
\_ Why should the employment rules of schools be a political issue
decided by the uninformed masses based on what sounds good to
them? -tom
\_ We should let the King decide these issues. Death to the
plebes!
\_ Because the uniformed masses are paying for it and it's
bankrupting the state?
\_ Let's vote to change police officer's uniforms to
pink, while we're at it, since we're paying for them.
The idea that schools are bankrupting the state is ludicrous,
and in any case, probation length has no effect on the
total amount spent. -tom
\_ Errr... talk to any business major about this. -jrleek
\_ CA spends ~50% of tax revenue on education. MN (one of the
highest ranked if not the highest) spends <30%. I
don't know what's wrong, but spending more money on it
isn't the answer.
\_ Just out of curiosity, what is MN's total tax revenue
per capita, including income and property tax.
Saying MN spends less than 30% on their schools
impresses me not at all since they are still spending
far more per student than CA.
\_ They have fewer students to educate. CA's
problem is all the low income immigrant children
who are filling the schools at the same time
that their parents don't contribute much to the
tax base. Those kids deserve an education, but
I think it necessarily won't be one as good as
what the kids in, say, MN receive. The failure
is thinking that it should/can be.
\_ What's the percentage of MN children whose native
languge is not English or whose parents' language
is not English and how does that compare to CA?
\_ So you're saying you want to kick out all the
illegals to bring CA costs in line with MN?
\_ Sounds good to me. Might save some ER's down in
SoCal as well.
\_ No, what I am saying is that demographic
factors probably can offer an explanation to why
factors probably can offer and explanation to why
CA students underpeform despite the state spending
lots of money on them. 88% of MN population are
white with a tiny hispanic minority.
\_ I have yet to hear a good explanation for why pre-college teachers
need tenure.
\_ Because the incredibly power teacher's union says so.
\_ Because the incredibly powerful teacher's union says so.
\_ Because most can get more money working at a different job.
They are trading salary for some job security and with the
add on of pensions, school districts keeps fairly steady
workforce.
\_ College professors, yes. School teachers? Mostly not.
I had one teacher that could hold a real job in the
real world K-12. The rest were "mom" types working for
extra take home cash. "Those who can, do. Those who
can't, teach."
\_ So the state should be willing to pay private school
prices for teachers? Or should the state should expect
to accept a high turnover rate for teachers. Note that
most teachers don't get past the five year mark.
\_ I think your points are unproven bullshit.
\_ What do you mean 'private school prices'? Most
private school teachers make less.
\_ Where's your evidence?
\_ http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm
"Private school teachers generally earn less
than public school teachers."
\_ And it also says at least some of those
private school teachers don't have the
credentials to work at a public school.
It's only fair to compare ones that do.
\_ http://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/95829.asp
"On average, public school teachers earn
between about 25 to 119 percent more than
private school teachers earn, depending
upon the private subsector... Between
about 2 and 50 percent of this public-
private difference can be accounted for
by differences in teacher characteristics
depending upon the private subsector.
Controlling for differences in teacher
and school characteristics between the
public and private sectors, one observes
a residual difference in the salaries of
teachers that is simply associated with
the sector in which the teacher is
employed." Anything else I can point you
to to convince you (everyone else is
already convinced) that you are wrong?
\_ I went to a private school (many of
them, in fact) and the teachers always
said they could make more in public
schools but that they didn't want to
deal with public school students,
parents, and administrators. Also, many
teachers are at private schools because
they care about more than a paycheck
(many private schools are religious).
\_ Why should anything be decided by the uninformed masses based
on what sounds good to them? The whole proposition system is
dumb.
\_ All Hail Caesar! Long Live The King! Democracy is dumb!
Why should the same 'uninformed masses' be allowed to vote
on anything? Isn't having the same dumb people choosing
their own leaders dumb too? You're totally right, all the
modern dictatorships one could name were much better off
with A Strong Noble Leader(tm) than we are with all those
dumb uninformed masses running around *gasp* voting! and
participating in other things normally reserved for Noble
Leader and His Family. Is there a place I can donate a
few bucks to start a CSUA Motd History Book Fund and then
can we require that people like this be a certain height
before posting here?
\- strictly speaking this is more E_RATCHET than E_TOOSHORT
\_ Strictly speaking, this comment is considerably more
stupid than the one to which it was responding.
\_ This falls under the "I know you are but what am I?!"
school of debate. Would you like to add some actual
content or are you happy at the "sticks and stones"
level?
\_ I love the motd. Calling a post that starts out
"All Hail Caesar!" and proceeds off on some straw
man dictatorship tangent "stupid" really requires
clarification? If you actually need it spelled out
for you, the response below does a decent job.
\_ Here's the difference: the below posted something
that makes a point and is worth responding to.
You posted noise and then waiting for someone
smart to respond and then said, "yeah! what
*he* said! nyah!"
\_ False dilemma. It's not about democracy vs. dictatorship;
it's about pure democracy vs. representational. Hey,
let's have everyone in the nation vote directly on
congressional bills too. Doesn't that sound like a grand
idea? Who needs leaders? Let's let all the people vote
on everything.
\_ When your respresentatives no longer represent and the
system has gone too far to self correct, there needs to
be some form of check/balance to counter the prevailing
non-representative system. In CA we have the prop.
system. It provides the people, you know, the tax
payer plebes/victims, a chance to retake control of an
out of control system. It can also be abused and can
create bad situations as well, but overall I have a lot
more faith in the voters than I do in life long
political hacks and beaurocrats. Pure democracy would
likely lead to the people voting themselves goodies from
the public trough as they say, but no direct democracy
has given us the same problem with corporations and
special interest groups and the proposition system is
a reasonable attempt to restore power to where it
belongs: the people. |
| 4/3 |
|
| www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teacher10nov10,0,7202054.story L arge Text Size Large Text Size Change text size COLUMN ONE Reluctant Warrior Bests Gov. A soft-spoken Bay Area teacher of the year recruited for the union's TV ads helped deal Schwarzenegger a devastating setback. By Mark Z Barabak, Times Staff Writer It was late October, 13 days from the special election, and the forces ar rayed against Arnold Schwarzenegger faced a key decision: how best to cl ose their TV broadside against the governor and his slate of ballot meas ures. For half an hour, tethered via conference call, strategists in Washington and Sacramento weighed their options. Some favored sticking with an ad already airing, a 30-second spot that showed the governor yukking it up on late-night TV and crowing about "always kicking" the butts of profess ional nurses. For close to a year, the union had supplied most of the money and muscle behind the anti-Schwarzenegger effort. When lead strategist Gale Kaufman spoke up, the matter was settled. And so, once more, television screens across California filled with the i mage of schoolteacher Liane Cismowski, peering straight into the camera and politely but firmly reproaching the governor for "too many broken pr omises and bad ideas on education." Schwarzenegger and his advisors conceived of Tuesday's election more than a year ago, back when his approval ratings scraped the sky and it seeme d he could sell California voters on just about anything. But after a br utal campaign of pillory and protests, it was Cismowski "nothing, a no body," in her words who outshined the governor and helped deliver a ma jor political setback to Schwarzenegger. Voters on Tuesday rejected all four of the measures the governor presente d as his agenda, including ones that could have slashed education spendi ng and lengthened the probationary period for new teachers. Much of the credit or blame goes to the union and the soft-spoken Cis mowski, who improbably became one of the most recognized faces of the sp ecial election campaign. The union and its allies spent about $20 millio n on TV ads featuring the high school English teacher, building the "Lia ne brand," as one strategist put it. The campaign defied many of the accepted rules of political advertising. There were no famous personalities or jazzy camera angles. There was no ripped-from-the-headlines sense of phony urgency. "Too many spots talk at you," said John Russonello, a Washington strategi st who helped shape the eight-month ad campaign. For Cismowski, whose previous public exposure was limited to singing in h er church choir, the starring role was thrilling and a bit frightening. Thrilling because it was so different from anything the Bay Area teacher had ever done. The anti-Schwarzenegger campaign didn't start out with Nov. At first, the association, the state's largest teachers union, merely sou ght to persuade the governor to restore $2 billion he borrowed from the education budget to help balance the state's books. When that didn't wor k, the group joined other public employee unions in trying to cow Schwar zenegger into canceling Tuesday's vote. When that, too, failed, they set out to bludgeon Schwarzenegger at the polls. But that decision was still months away when the teachers union began sha ping its political strategy in January. The question then was how to take on a popular governor with a seemingly deep reservoir of good will. "People believed he was trying to do the ri ght thing, his heart was in the right place," said Mark Mellman, a longt ime teachers union pollster. "All of that made it harder to make politic al attacks, or foment foam-at-the-mouth anger." So rather than aggressively attack the governor and risk alienating voter s, it was decided the best strategy would be a low-key, conversational a pproach. Strategists held a series of open-ended discussions with voters around th e state. The idea of such focus groups was to identify the words people used to express their feelings about public schools, a constant source o f concern in California. What seemed to bother participants most, strategists found, was the idea that Schwarzenegger had broken his word by failing to repay the $2 billi on once state revenues picked up something the governor denies and t hus proved himself a typical politician. "People had a pretty high level of expectation for this governor that whe n he said he would be different, it wasn't just rhetoric," said advertis ing consultant Rich Davis, who produced the teachers union spots with hi s partner, David Dixon. So the question was who could best make the case against the governor. |
| stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm DOL Seal - Link to DOL Home Page US Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics Photos representing the workforce - Digital Im agery copyright 2001 PhotoDisc, Inc. Sources of Additional Information Significant Points * Public school teachers must have at least a bachelors degree, complet e an approved teacher education program, and be licensed. Back to T op Teachers act as facilitators or coaches, using interactive discussions an d hands-on approaches to help students learn and apply concepts in subje cts such as science, mathematics, or English. They utilize props or mani pulatives to help children understand abstract concepts, solve problems, and develop critical thought processes. For example, they teach the con cepts of numbers or of addition and subtraction by playing board games. As the children get older, the teachers use more sophisticated materials , such as science apparatus, cameras, or computers. To encourage collaboration in solving problems, students are increasingly working in groups to discuss and solve problems together. Preparing stu dents for the future workforce is the major stimulus generating the chan ges in education. To be prepared, students must be able to interact with others, adapt to new technology, and think through problems logically. Teachers provide the tools and the environment for their students to dev elop these skills. Preschool, kindergarten, and elementary school teachers play a vital role in the development of children. What children learn and experience duri ng their early years can shape their views of themselves and the world a nd can affect their later success or failure in school, work, and their personal lives. Preschool, kindergarten, and elementary school teachers introduce children to mathematics, language, science, and social studies . They use games, music, artwork, films, books, computers, and other too ls to teach basic skills. Preschool children learn mainly through play and interactive activities. Preschool teachers capitalize on childrens play to further language and vocabulary development (using storytelling, rhyming games, and acting ga mes), improve social skills (having the children work together to build a neighborhood in a sandbox), and introduce scientific and mathematical concepts (showing the children how to balance and count blocks when buil ding a bridge or how to mix colors when painting). Thus, a less structur ed approach, including small-group lessons, one-on-one instruction, and learning through creative activities such as art, dance, and music, is a dopted to teach preschool children. Play and hands-on teaching also are used in kindergarten classrooms, but there academics begin to take prior ity. Letter recognition, phonics, numbers, and awareness of nature and s cience, introduced at the preschool level, are taught primarily by kinde rgarten teachers. Most elementary school teachers instruct one class of children in several subjects. In some schools, two or more teachers work as a team and are jointly responsible for a group of students in at least one subject. In other schools, a teacher may teach one special subjectusually music, ar t, reading, science, arithmetic, or physical educationto a number of cl asses. A small but growing number of teachers instruct multilevel classr ooms, with students at several different learning levels. Middle school teachers and secondary school teachers help students delve more deeply into subjects introduced in elementary school and expose the m to more information about the world. Middle and secondary school teach ers specialize in a specific subject, such as English, Spanish, mathemat ics, history, or biology. Vocational education teachers, also referred to as career and t echnical or career-technology teachers, instruct and train students to w ork in a wide variety of fields, such as healthcare, business, auto repa ir, communications, and, increasingly, technology. They often teach cour ses that are in high demand by area employers, who may provide input int o the curriculum and offer internships to students. Many vocational teac hers play an active role in building and overseeing these partnerships. Additional responsibilities of middle and secondary school teachers may include career guidance and job placement, as well as followups with stu dents after graduation. The use of computer resources, such as educational software and the Internet, exposes students to a vast range of experiences and pr omotes interactive learning. Through the Internet, students can communic ate with students in other countries. Students also use the Internet for individual research projects and to gather information. Computers are u sed in other classroom activities as well, from solving math problems to learning English as a second language. Teachers also may use computers to record grades and perform other administrative and clerical duties. T hey must continually update their skills so that they can instruct and u se the latest technology in the classroom. Teachers often work with students from varied ethnic, racial, and religio us backgrounds. With growing minority populations in most parts of the c ountry, it is important for teachers to work effectively with a diverse student population. Accordingly, some schools offer training to help tea chers enhance their awareness and understanding of different cultures. T eachers may also include multicultural programming in their lesson plans , to address the needs of all students, regardless of their cultural bac kground. Teachers design classroom presentations to meet students needs and abilit ies. They observe and eva luate a students performance and potential and increasingly are asked to use new assessment methods. For example, teachers may examine a portfol io of a students artwork or writing in order to judge the students overa ll progress. They then can provide additional assistance in areas in whi ch a student needs help. Teachers also grade papers, prepare report card s, and meet with parents and school staff to discuss a students academic progress or personal problems. In addition to conducting classroom activities, teachers oversee study ha lls and homerooms, supervise extracurricular activities, and accompany s tudents on field trips. They may identify students with physical or ment al problems and refer the students to the proper authorities. Secondary school teachers occasionally assist students in choosing courses, colleg es, and careers. Teachers also participate in education conferences and workshops. In recent years, site-based management, which allows teachers and parents to participate actively in management decisions regarding school operat ions, has gained popularity. In many schools, teachers are increasingly involved in making decisions regarding the budget, personnel, textbooks, curriculum design, and teaching methods. Back to T op Seeing students develop new skills and gain an appreciation of knowledge and learning can be very rewarding. However, teaching may be frustrating when one is dealing with unmotivated or disrespectful students. Occasio nally, teachers must cope with unruly behavior and violence in the schoo ls. Teachers may experience stress in dealing with large classes, studen ts from disadvantaged or multicultural backgrounds, or heavy workloads. Inner-city schools in particular, may be run down and lack the amenities of schools in wealthier communities. Accountability standards also may increase stress levels, with teachers expected to produce students who a re able to exhibit satisfactory performance on standardized tests in cor e subjects. Teachers are sometimes isolated from their colleagues because they work a lone in a classroom of students. However, some schools allow teachers to work in teams and with mentors to enhance their professional developmen t Including school duties performed outside the classroom, many teachers wo rk more than 40 hours a week. Part-time schedules are more common among preschool and kindergarten teachers. Although some school districts have gone to all-day kindergartens, most kindergarten teachers still teach t wo kindergarten c... |
| nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/95829.asp Ordering information Executive Summary This report presents information regarding the patterns of variation in t he salaries paid to public and private school teachers in relation to va rious personal and job characteristics. Specifically, this analysis exam ines salary differences between public and private school teachers, male and female teachers, teachers of differing racial and ethnic background s, elementary and secondary teachers, teachers with different qualificat ions, and teachers operating in differing work environments. The term "t eacher characteristics in this analysis encompasses personal attributes as well as professional qualifications. The empirical analyses presented in this report are based upon a conceptu al framework that has been used by economists for years to examine the r elationship between prices and characteristics of goods and services: na mely, hedonic price theory or, in this instance, hedonic wage theory. Th is conceptual framework builds on the notion that employees care about b oth the monetary rewards as well as the quality of their work environmen t, while employers care both about the wages they pay as well as the set s of productive attributes of the individuals they employ. The labor mar ket processes that match employees to employers and ultimately individua l workers to job assignments reveals information about these sets of pre ferences of employers and employees. The result is a set trade-offs betw een monetary rewards and the various sets of characteristics of employee s and jobs. The analysis explores what schools and school systems value in teachers and, hence, are willing to pay more to acquire. At the same time, it reveals the extent to which teachers are willing to trade-off w ages to work in more pleasant environments. In essence, this analysis he lps illuminate what is important and what matters about teachers, from t he viewpoint of school employers, and what matters to teachers. Hedonic analysis also illuminates the trade-offs, both implicit and expli cit, that confront employees. This analysis goes beyond the characterist ics that are formally rewarded in salary schedules, such as degree level and longevity, and hence, one of the strengths of hedonic analysis is t hat it includes both pecuniary and nonpecuniary rewards. That is, such a n analysis shows the comparative value in the market for teachers of obt aining a graduate degree, of teaching smaller class sizes, of choosing a career in private as opposed to public education, of working in disrupt ive schools, or of putting in more after-school hours. Patterns of teacher compensation reflect, at least in part, the forces of supply and demand. Value is shaped by the balance or imbalance between supply (ie, the degree of availability of some quantity or characteris tic) and demand (ie, the extent or need for some quantity or character istic). From this viewpoint, shortages are a temporary imbalance between supply and demand that will self correct in the absence of barriers to market forces. Increases in compensation are one of the market forces that establish bal ance. That is, shortages of particular types of teachers or in particula r types of schools will be reflected in higher salaries. By isolating wh at factors are related to higher salaries, hedonic analysis illuminates potential areas and qualities experiencing shortages. Finally, hedonic wage analysis is a reflection of "what is" as opposed to "what ought to be." That is, it reveals the current market value of tea cher characteristics: what schools are willing to pay for in the market for teachers. It does not, however, reveal which characteristics should be valued. It does not necessarily provide a guideline to schools of whi ch teacher characteristics are the most productive. The interpretation of these effects suggests that both supply- and demand -side factors are working and that in some instances, they are not easil y distinguished from one another. Both objective and subjective measures of the school and work environment have exhibited effects on salaries. In some instances, it is shown that more difficult work environments are associated with higher wages, all else equal. This suggests that provid ing similar teacher services to all types of students will require diffe rent salary levels for teachers. Public and Private Sector Salary Differences On average, public school teachers earn between about 25 to 119 percent m ore than private school teachers earn, depending upon the private subsector. Conservative Christian, Catholic parochial, and other religious-unaffiliated schools are the poorest paying, while Catholic, nonsectarian private, and special education schools are the highest paying nonpublic schools. Between about 2 and 50 percent of this public-private difference can be accounted for by differences in teacher characteristics depending upon the private subsector. Controlling for differences in teacher and school characteristics between the public and private sectors, one observes a residual difference in the salaries of teachers that is simply associated with the sector in which the teacher is employed. These public-private salary differences are the result of one or a combination of two alternative forces: They reflect unobservable characteristics between the two sectors that ma ke private schools more desirable places to work as evidenced by the wage sacrifice that private school teachers make to remain in the private sector or They reflect factors (eg, certification requirements) that influence the free flow of teachers between the two sectors that may ultimately have the effect of reducing differences in salary levels. Differences in Teacher Sex and Racial-Ethnic Background Despite the fact that sex and race-ethnicity are not accounted for in for mal salary scales in the public or private sector, some differences in t he salaries of teachers are associated with sex and racial-ethnic backgr ound once other teacher and school characteristics are taken into accoun t Specifically, White and Hispanic male public school teachers earn higher salaries than their female counterparts. Male public school teachers earn between 10 to 13 percent more than females, on average, and a little more than half of this difference is accounted for by differences in the characteristics of male and female teachers. The remainder of the difference may be due, in part, to differences in the labor markets for males and females. Married females receive lower salaries than nonmarried females, while for males, no difference associated with marital status is identified, all else equal. Racial-ethnic differences among teachers were observed only for male public school teachers. The only statistically significant difference in salaries observed related to racial-ethnic background is the 4 percent difference favoring white (not of Hispanic origin) males over blacks (not of Hispanic origin). Differences in School Level On average, secondary teachers earn more than elementary school teachers. More than half of the difference in the salaries of elementary versus sec ondary teachers in both sectors can be accounted for by differences in t he characteristics of elementary and secondary teachers. Differences in Teacher Qualifications and Effort General teaching experience, school-specific experience, and age each con tribute independently to wage differentials. In the public sector, each year of general teaching experience is valued more highly (in terms of pay differential) than each year of school-specific experience, which in turn is more highly valued than age (as a reflection of maturity). In the public sector, a new teacher receives an annual salary increment of 212 percent for an additional year of general experience, 086 percent for an additional year of school-specific experience, and 017 percent for an additional year in age. Public and private school teachers with higher degree levels earned higher salaries, all else equal. However, only public school teachers benefitted in terms of higher salaries associated with the acquisition of state certification. A public school teacher wit... |