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| 2005/11/4-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40437 Activity:high |
11/4 New Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeachment;
ImpeachPAC is Launched to Support Pro-Impeachment Candidates
By a margin of 53% to 42%, Americans want Congress to impeach
President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq, according to a
new poll commissioned by http://AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots
coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President
Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
The poll was conducted by Zogby International, the highly-regarded
non-partisan polling company. The poll interviewed 1,200 U.S.
adults October 29 through November 2.
The poll found that 53% agreed with the statement:
"If President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for
going to war with Iraq, Congress should consider holding him
accountable through impeachment."
\_ My copy of the constitution seems to require "treason, bribery,
or other high crimes and misdemeanors" for impeachment. Unless
you have proof that haliburton (or whoever) bribed the chimp
into going to war, I fail to see how the threshold for removal
from office has been met. He is no worse than many who have
held the office. [I think that the threshold for removal was
not met wrt Clinton either, I do not know enough re Johnson
to comment]
\_ I'm with Bill Maher on this one: We need a California-style
recall election on Dubya, complete with Arnold Schwarzenegger,
Gary Coleman, and Mary Carey as candidates.
\_ You don't consider it a high crime to send troops into
battle for your own personal agenda?
\_ What personal agenda is that?
\_ http://www.newamericancentury.org -tom
\_ "I really don't like Saddam, so I'm itching to find a
reason to invade his country."
\_ "He tried to kill my daddy!"
\_ That didn't happen, and your repeated assertions don't make it
true. -emarkp
\_ emarkp, I've always wondered how the strict war
mongering Republican saddam toppling sending home
thousands of US soldiers with missing limbs just
so George W Bush has some sort of legacy side Right
Side of your brain coexists with the Left Side we
will bring the miracle of eternal progression to
all of god's children one love Mormon side of your brain.
\_ Hi anonymous troll! For one thing, I'm not R. When did
you stop beating your wife by the way? -emarkp
\_ If the anonymous troll is also a mormon, you might
need to specify which wife.
\_ Ah, but then he'd be a member of a splinter group,
not the SLC-based church. So your "also" is
wrong. -emarkp
\_ OTOH, there are plenty of religions that allow
polygamy besides these mormon splinter groups.
It's not at all clear to me that any religion
based on the Bible should prohibit polygamy.
\_ Your assertion that it didn't happen doesn't make it so
either. However, I wasn't asserting it, as in fact I don't
know. I suggest only that it is impeachable if true. But
what is being investigated now if you're so sure this is
untrue?
\_ Apologies. I didn't connect the logic to the parent
posts. However, "If President Bush did not tell the
truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq" is
not the same as "send troops into battle for your own
personal agenda". -emarkp
\_ Unless "the truth about his reasons for going to war
with Iraq" is the same as "his own personal agenda",
aren't the two accusations the same? -gm
\_ Okay, I amend my comments to "not /necessesarily/
the same". -emarkp
\_ No. I do not. Art 2 Sec 1 cl 1 gives the Pres. sole executive
pwr of the entire US. Art 2 Sec 2 cl 1 gives the Pres. complete
control of the Army and Navy (Yes, I know Congress has to give
the Pres. the pwr under Art 1 Sec 8, but they did give him the
pwr in this case - a sufficient showing of false pretenses has
not yet been made; please make one if you believe otherwise -
M. Moore video inanity is insufficient, I'm asking for real
proof).
The Pres. can use his discretion in deploying these forces into
action under the authority conferred by Congress.
I am even willing to say that the principle of "what is good
for GM is good for America" could be applied even it was shown
\_ Works for me. -gm
that he was motivated by a purely personal economic interest
(other than a direct bribe) as many US companies and thier
employees have prospered as a result of this engagement.
[I do not believe that the decision to depoly in Iraq was
correct, nor do I believe that the civilians have handled
the operation properly. But I do not consider the admin.
failures to be impeachable.]
\_ Treason is, by secondary and tertiary definition, a betrayal
of trust or disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior. The
standard can be as high or as low as one wishes to put it.
That said, if Clinton is the bar, I fear Bush has cleared it.
\_ Treason is a legal term. You can make up any definition
you want but it means nothing. And Clinton was not convicted
of anything. Impeachment is just a trial phase. He was
found 'not guilty' by the Senate so there is no 'Clinton bar
for treason' since he didn't get convicted of it and wasn't
on trial for it in the first place. WTF are you talking
about?
\_ Exactly. Bush should be put on trial: impeachment.
\_ Please point out an offense committed by the Pres.
which qualifies under Art 2 Sec 4.
\_ He violated the Geneva Convention by authorizing
torture and other War Crimes against the detainees
in Gitmo and elsewhere. That is a high crime and
a bunch of people at Nurenberg were hung for it.
\_ As much as you would like the Geneva Convention
to apply, it most likely doesn't therefore no
"high crime" has been committed by the Pres.
[For the present purposes I will ignore the
fact that Geneva is not self-executing thus
cannot be used directly to gain relief or
indict.]
The 3d convention applies to the treatment of
prisoners of war and you are correct that as
a contracting party the US is bound to follow
the convention wrt pows even though the
terrorist do not (Art 2).
But, Art 4 specifies prerequisites for prot-
ection and arguably no terrorist qualifies.
Furthermore, Art 5 only provides protection
to those whose status is in question until a
competent tribunal, such as a US military
tribunal, makes a determination re status.
Once a non-protection determination is made
by the tribunal any means may be used.
If a non-citizen is held outside of the jx
of a fed dist ct, then that person would not
have standing for habeas or 8th amend. relief
either so they could be treated in any manner.
[I think that is is stupid to authorize
torture, &c. but in relation to non-
citizens who are non-state actors and
are held beyond the reach of fed dist
cts, there is no legal bar to the Pres.
authorizing any and all means be used.
If you can point to authorization to use
torture, &c. PRIOR to the Art 5 status
determination I will agree that the Pres.
has acted beyond his authority; however
you will need to show an actual instance
of torture, &c. being used PRIOR to an
Art 5 determination under authorization
of the Pres. to make out an indictable
"high crime"]
\_ Almost none of the detainees have had
their military tribunals yet. Are you
talking about the hearings where they
determine the detainees guilt or in-
nocence, or some other hearing where
they determine their POW status? I do
not know about the latter. In any case,
I am sure there are some violations in
the sense that some people were tortured
before their hearings. I do not know of
any specific cases, but could find some
easily. The point being, there are ple-
nty of crimes out there that Bush has
committed that he could be impeached
for if he became politically unpopular
enough. I think we learned during the
Whitewater investigation, impeachment
is not really a legal process, it is a
political one.
\_ I am specifically talking about a
process to determine Art 4 status.
Until the cessation of hostilities,
a trial on the merits is not requ-
ired (for non-US citizens) only a
process to determine Art 4 status
is required. Given the realities
of war, almost any determination
(even a 5 min summary process by
a jag officer) will satisfy this
requirement.
In order to find a "high crime"
you need to show (1) that someone
was tortured PRIOR to an Art 4
determination and (2) this was
authorized. I'm almost certain
you will not find proof of (2)
b/c any memos/eo/er written by
the Pres., &c. will have enough
ambiguity to suggest that torture
was authorized ONLY if the person
was not protected under Art 4.
Please also note that the conven-
tion may not cover the practice
of handing pows over to non-sig-
natories.
\_ well said, many posters don't understand
that impeachment is purely a political process
the Senate can impeach the president on
whatever reason (see def. of "high crime").
and unlike a criminal process, there's no
appeal.
\_ Given that "high crime" are
specified in context of treason
and bribery, if the "crime" is
not of that magnitude, there may
be a separation of pwrs argument
to enjoin use of the impeachment
pwr. [If a "war crime" can be
shown, I think the Pres. has no
leg to stand on.]
\_ You honestly think that the USSC would
step in and tell the House that they
did not have the authority to impeach?
It would precipitate a Constitutional
crises. I think the USSC would step back
from that.
\_ Given that they interfered
in FL, I'm not entirely sure
that the USSC would stay out
wrt the current Pres.
\_ http://csua.org/u/dy7
\_ Please see above, one
can adhere to Geneva
and torture terrorists
b/c Geneva does not
cover them.
\_ http://www.answers.com/topic/high-crime
\_ Maybe they cut out Art 3 Sec 3 cl 1 in your copy of the
the const. but my copy says "Treason against the US shall
consist of levying war against them, or in adhering to
their enemies, or giving them aid and comfort."
Unless you can point out to me how Bush II conducted war
against the US or gave aid/comfort to the enemies of the
US, the threshold has not been met. (The argument that
Bush united the Islamic world against the US and thus
gave aid/comfort to the enemies of the US is far too
strained.)
[Note, I said that I do not think the bar was met w/
Clinton. This is one reason I chose not to vote for
Tom Campbell when he ran for re-election. As a law
prof. he should have known better than to vote for
impeachment regardless of the political pressure.]
\_ Outing of 2 undercover agents gave aid & comfort to our
enemies, especially KHAN.
\_ Outing of 2 undercover agents gave aid & comfort
to our enemies, especially KHAN.
\_ Can you prove that this was done under either
explict or implicit approval of the Pres.? |
| 5/24 |
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| www.newamericancentury.org The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational orga nization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American lead ership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral pr inciple; and that too few political leaders today are making the case fo r global leadership. The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs, r esearch papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to expla in what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international i nvolvement and to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America's role in the world. |
| csua.org/u/dy7 -> www.pww.org/article/articleview/6260/1/245/ Tim Wheeler People's Weekly World Newspaper, 01/08/05 00:00 WASHINGTON During confirmation hearings on Alberto Gonzales nomination as Attorney General, senators should question him about a recently uncover ed memo that George W Bush ordered the torture of detainees at Abu Ghra ib, Guantanamo and other military prisons around the world, several huma n rights groups suggested last month. The groups, who joined in an ACLU Freedom of Information (FOIA) lawsuit, which won release of the memo and other incriminating documents, are des cribing it as the smoking gun implicating Bush in the torture scandal. ACLU Executive Director Anthony D Romero released the memo Dec. That document, a May 22, 2004* FBI internal e-mail, suggests tha t Bush issued a secret Executive Order authorizing the use of extreme co ercive measures in interrogation, including sleep deprivation, stress po sitions, attack dogs, and use of hoods to intimidate prisoners. The Gene va Convention Against Torture bans all of these practices. These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widesprea d detainee abuse ultimately rests, Romero said. Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers. The human rights groups statement called on the Senate to scrutinize Gonz ales, the White House Legal Counsel, on a Jan. Gonzales described the conventions as quai nt and obsolete. In August 2002, Gonzales, without consulting military and State Departmen t experts in the laws of torture and war, according to the Washington Po st, approved a memo from the Justice Department claiming that unlawful e nemy combatants could be detained indefinitely without criminal charges or the right of due process. The memo, the Post said, gave CIA interroga tors the legal blessings they sought. Physicians for Human Rights, winner of the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize, is one of the groups in the ACLU lawsuit. PHR sent a letter to the Senate Judi ciary Committee signed by 150 doctors with expertise in the treatment of torture. There should be no place in the US government for any offici al who condones the crime of torture, the letter stated. Gretchen Borchelt, a PHR spokesperson, joined in the call for probing Bus hs role in the torture scandal. It would be great to question Gonzales a bout that memo, she said. There are a number of documents the senators h ave asked for and have not received yet. We think this is a hugely impor tant issue not just because of the nomination of Gonzales but also becau se the questions about torture have not been resolved. Gonzales asserted Bushs right to order the torture of detainees, a positi on that violates US treaty obligations under the Convention Against To rture and other international agreements, PHR said. Louis-based Veterans For P eace, another group in the lawsuit, told the World in a telephone interv iew that they are now examining the documents, which they recently recei ved. Since Gonzales was Bushs legal adviser at the time, it would make sense t o ask him about that memo, Powell said. It would be a good question: wha t was Bushs role in the torture? If our nations highest law enforcement officer is known for abrogating in ternational law in the treatment of detainees, we are just confirming to the world that we dont care about human rights. We would be confirming a criminal, a scofflaw, to be the nations chief prosecutor. Powell pointed out that the US is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture as a matter of self-protection. I fully anticipate someone is g oing to capture some American soldiers and do unto them what we have don e unto others. We have a deep concern for how our soldiers are going to be treated if they are captured given the record of torture at Abu Ghrai b, Guantanamo and other detention centers, Powell said. Thousands of det ainees have been held without trial because the administration lacks evi dence to try them or even bring criminal charges. org, the Internet activist group, has posted a petition on its web site demanding that Gonzales sign a Declaration Against Torture and reno unce his extreme and dangerous position that torture is a legitimate met hod of interrogation. The petition calls on Gonzales to reaffirm America n respect for human dignity and the rule of law. The administration is feeling so much heat on the subject that they poste d, unannounced, on a US government website, a new policy repudiating t he earlier memos and calling torture abhorrent both to American law and values and to international norms. On the eve of his confirmation hearings, Gonzales appeared to be covering his previous actions by releasing a prepared statement saying he would abide by international treaties prohibiting torture of prisoners. His Se nate testimony was obtained by The Associated Press. |
| www.answers.com/topic/high-crime Tom admits his involvement in an operation that resulted in the loss of c ivilians, for which he was blamed. However, he maintains that he is inno cent, and he was made a scapegoat as only he could identify the men who did carry out the killings. Claire is prepared to defend her husband in a military court, but she soo n realises that she is in over her head and hires Charlie Grimes, an emb ittered former military attorney, who has a grudge against the military brass. While making their case, they begin to uncover a massive cover-up , perpetrated by one of the highest ranking officers. Key eyewitnesses h ave conveniently died, and as the scandal is revealed, Claire's career a nd even her life are put in jeopardy. |
| AfterDowningStreet.org org is a coalition of veterans' groups, peace groups, and political activist groups, which launched on May 26, 2005, a campaign to urge the US Congress to begin a formal investigation into whether President Bush has committed impeac hable offenses in connection with the Iraq war. Media This was my favorite Email of all the ones I receieved after spending an hour on the Michael Medved radio show yesterday. The least favorite ones included words like "Commie" and "dirtbag." I cant tell you how long Ive been waiting for someone capable of standi ng up to the cheap shot artists on reactionary right radio. Most of the time when Im out driving around, I tend to switch back and forth betwee n Air America, the local NPR channel and the local wacko right wing talk channel. Media By Norman Solomon The huge gap between Tehran and Washington has widened in recent months. Top officials of Iran and the United States are not even within shouting distance. The styles of rhetoric differ, but the messages in both directions are filled with hostility. While visiting Iran's capital in early summer, during the home stretch of the presidential campaign, I was struck by paradoxes. From all appearances, most Iranians despise the US government but love Americans. Repression, imposed from above, coexists with freedom taken from below. Media By Elaine Sciolino and Elisabetta Povoledo The New York Times Rome - Italy's spymaster identified an Italian occasional spy named Rocco Martino on Thursday as the disseminator of forged documents that descri bed efforts by Iraq to buy uranium ore from Niger for a nuclear weapons program, three lawmakers said Thursday. Nicol Pollari, director of the Italian military inte lligence agency known as Sismi, disclosed that Mr Martino was the sourc e of the forged documents in closed-door testimony to a parliamentary co mmittee that oversees secret services, the lawmakers said. Cindy Sheeh an Progressive Talk Radio AM 1360 KLSD Hosts Live Event Cindy Sheehan, who has been leading protests against President Bushs Ira q War policies, will appear in San Diego on Monday, November 7, during a live radio broadcast of the Stacy Taylor Show on Progressive Talk AM 13 60 KLSD. Sheehan, who lost a son in the Iraq War, will be the featured guest durin g the three-hour special broadcast event being held from 6 am to 9 am . on the radio plaza outside the AM 1360 KLSD studio building located at 9660 Granite Ridge Drive. Stacy Taylor will be broadcasting live and the show will also feature int erviews and remarks by other speakers who support the anti-war cause of Cindy Sheehan. Media Published on Thursday, November 3, 2005 by the Associated Press House Refuses to Consider Democratic Measure Condemning Republicans for L ax Oversight of Iraq War by Liz Sidoti WASHINGTON - Democrats tried unsuccessfully Thursday to force the GOP-con trolled House to take up a measure condemning Republicans for "their ref usal to conduct oversight" of the Bush administration's Iraq war policy and order investigations into it. The House voted 220-191 to set aside a resolution offered by House Minori ty Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "I think it brings shame to the House for this Congress to be engaged in a cover up when it comes to revealing what's happening in Iraq," Pelosi said. Media A new song by Stephen Stills FEED THE PEOPLE why not feed the people everywhere and let the peace begin? turn your swords to ploughshares everywhere and feed the people when they borrow in third world countries people need to be fed so explain this to politicians while we send them guns instead of the seeds that theyre planting in the ground making their own way self sufficient without permission from the good old usa but it seems they owe us a lot of money and do you know what for? Activism By Abigail A Fuller and Neil Wollman Give us three minutes and we can find an op-ed piece in a US newspaper calling for the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq, or arguing that the y should stay. The arguments are varied and numerous: If the US leaves , anarchy will ensue. Setting a timetable wou ld embolden those using violence in Iraq. Any discussion of what the Iraqi peopl e themselves want. The opinions of those most affected by this war count the most. And so a nationwide referendum should be conducted in Iraq on the question of whether US troops should stay or go, in which every I raqi can vote directly on this question. What the US public wants is m uch discussed in the media-nearly every week poll results are announced indicating how many people believe the United States should withdraw all or some troops from Iraq (63 percent, according to the latest USA Today /CNN Gallup Poll) and how many believe the United States made a mistake in sending troops to Iraq (59 percent, from the same poll). Media By Kevin Gray, Reuters MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Shopkeepers raced to board up storefronts and residents fled this Argentine seaside resort on Thursda y as thousands of protesters prepared to take to the streets to protest US President George W Bush's presence at an Americas-wide presidentia l summit. Bush was scheduled to arrive late on Thursday for a two-day Summit of the Americas in a country where anti-Bush sentiment runs high due to the wa r in Iraq and US-backed, free-market policies that Argentines say push ed millions of their compatriots into poverty. "People see all the iron barricades and police on every corner and they g et scared," said construction worker Hernan Brito, who received five las t-minute requests to board up store windows from merchants worried about possible looting. Congress By Senator Ted Kennedy In President Bush's five years in office, his White House has too often a ttempted to impose its will without regard for the merits of the issues or even the truth. Dissent is labeled "unpatriotic," and critics face un precedented retribution. The Republican Congress has become a lap-dog fo r the Administration in allowing partisan priorities to trump truth. In one of the greatest blunders in the nation's history, the Administrati on concocted a fraudulent case for war in Iraq. Two thousand Americans h ave paid the ultimate price, and the end is not in sight. This week, our minori ty leader, Senator Harry Reid sent a powerful message to the Republican leadership -- including the White House -- that smokescreens and foot-dr agging will no longer be tolerated. Media By Jonathan Alter Newsweek Because he disclosed Plame's CIA identity to reporters, the Bush aide cou ld lose his clearance. The conventional wisdom in Washington this week is that Karl Rove is out of the woods. But while an indictment against him in the Valerie Plame l eak case is now unlikely, he may be in danger of losing his security cle arance. According to last week's indictment of Scooter Libby, a person identified as "Official A" held conversations with reporters about Plame's identit y as an undercover CIA operative, information that was classified. News accounts subsequently confirmed that that official was Rove. Under Execu tive Order 12958, signed by President Clinton in 1995, such a disclosure is grounds for, at a minimum, losing access to classified information. By John McConnell, Founder of Earth Day The first observance of a global Minute for Peace was at the time of Pres ident John F Kennedy's death. His efforts to see peace realized through the United Nations were ended in Dallas at 19:00 GMT, the very moment o n the global clock when the United Nations Charter was signed eighteen y ears earlier. In the Minute for Peace broadcast given at the end of the mourning period (December 22, 1963), a recording of President Kennedy wa s broadcast globally -- proceeded by Front Page announcements in many ne wspapers telling when this would occur. com Well, it turns out that President Bush isn't the only guy in Washington w ho can change the subject. Employing a rarely used parliamentary procedure, Senate Democratic leader s yesterday hijacked a news cycle that would otherwise have been dominat ed by Bush's Supreme Court nomination and his scary speech on bird flu. Instead, they turned the media's... |