Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 40378
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2005/11/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40378 Activity:low
11/1    "America's badly damaged image in the Muslim world could take
         more than a generation to set right."
        http://csua.org/u/dw3
        I remember being roundly mocked two years ago on the motd for
        suggesting that this would be the result of the Iraq War.
        \_ right, and this has nothing to do with partisan grandstanding...
           \- lots of people said so immediately after AbuG. search wall
              archive for "for a generation"
              \_ The media storm over it almost certainly made it worse.
                 \_ That damn liberal media. Especially the liberal state
                    run media in Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
                    \_ nice red herring.  of course the state run media in
                       places like that blames the west, israel and everyone
                       but the dictators in charge on their countries.  duh.
                       \_ How is it a red herring? The place where it was
                          "made worse" don't read American newspapers. Do
                          you honestly think the Iraqi insurgency cares
                          about what the NYT prints? Get over yourself.
                          They care what Iraqis think.
        \_ Only a generation? The Turks and Greeks are still fighting. So
           are the Serbs, Croats, and Albanians.
           \_ Apples and oranges. Turks conquered, annexed, and then ruled
              Greece for centuries. After attaining independence, large chunks
              of historically Greek territories still remained in the hands of
              Turks who later ethnically cleansed most of their Greek
              population during WWI. Later Turkey illegally occupied about 30%
              of Cyprus, a conflict that hadn't been resolved up to this date.
        \_ I don't remember your saying that in those words at that point in
           time ... what did you write about specifically that would damage
           the U.S.'s image in the Muslim world for generations?
           \_ KAIS motd is broken and I don't know how else to search
              old posts.
        \_ hint: America never had a good image in the Muslim world. this is
           all status quo.  here's mine: I predict that if you continue to not
           give me all the money I want, the sky will still be blue some where
           in the world 2 years from now and will stay that way for
           generations!
           \_ The "not good image" goes back to the time when the Muslims
              invaded and conquered the eastern Roman/Byzantine provinces.
              Followed by the Crusades and such and WW I.
              \_ If Bush had just understood their culture better, the Romans
                 and Byzantines would have stood aside while the Muslims just
                 went about their business and just doing their own thing and
                 wouldn't have attacked us on 9/11.  HALIBURTON!
                 \_ Well Britain did fuck with them quite a bit in the 20th
                    century in Iraq and stuff. Britain and US have done some
                    evil shit in the middle east and this is the most recent
                    stuff to look back on for them.
                          \_ Far more in the way of bad shit has happened in
                             history than good. The thing that alot of people
                             don't seem to realise is that they are not the
                             only one's being fucked with. Almost everyone has
                             been. Time for some people just to cut the damn
                             cord and get on with your life and stop pointing
                             fingers. [formatd]
                             \_ I found it interesting in a horrible sort of
                                way that one of bin laden's gripes is losing
                                muslim control of spain and he wants it back.
                                \_ Why Spain and not the Balkans?
                                   \_ Maybe because Arabs were in Spain, but
                                      it was I think mostly Turks in the
                                      Balkans? The Turks are trying to become
                                      European anyway. Maybe bin Laden has
                                      written them off.
                                      \_ Turkey is on a slow slide away from
                                         a secular government.  The bin laden
                                         types are patient people.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
7/21    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cold_War_pilot_defections
        This week's food for thought, brought to you by People's
        Republic of Berkeley: Did you know that many US pilots defected to
        communist Cuba?  South Korea pilots defected to communist
        North Korea? Iran<->Iraq pilots defected to each other?
        W Germany pilots defected to E Germany? Taiwan/ROC pilots
	...
2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
	...
2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
        http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
           should never admit mistakes.
           \_ Most "tea party" conservatives still support the war. It is the
              weak-kneed moderates that have turned against America.
	...
2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
2/16    "Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq"
        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Duh.  the best thing that could ever happen to a country is
           the US declaring war on it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
           the US winning a war with it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
           can't believe we elected this retread.
           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/25/opinion/1248069087414/my-tortured-decision.html
        Where is the apology jblack?
	...
2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
           war machine.  Looking for "justifications" for it is like looking
           for sense in the necronomicon.  Just accept it and move on.
        \_ When we fight with Red China, what nation will we use as a proxy?
	...
2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
        Has it been declared that we didn't find WMD in iraq? (think so).
        So why did we go into iraq (what was the gain), and if nobody really
        knows, why is nobody looking for the reason?
        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
2010/3/12-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53752 Activity:nil
3/11    The lateste female Jihad is a blond, green-eyed, white middle-aged
        married woman!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100310/ts_csm/286499
        I guess racial/gender/whatever profiling doesn't work.
        \_ Sure it works. It may not be 100% foolproof, but I guarantee
           there are a lot fewer people like her wishing Death To America
	...
Cache (4842 bytes)
csua.org/u/dw3 -> news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051101/pl_nm/security_terrorism_dc
Reuters Bush critics say US is losing war on terror By David Morgan 1 hour, 28 minutes ago WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US terrorism experts Daniel Benjamin and Steven Simon have reached a stark conclusion about the war on terrorism: the Un ited States is losing. Iraq that escalates the potential for Islamic violence against Europe and the United States. America's badly damaged image in the Muslim world could take more than a generation to set right. And Bush's mounting political woes at home have undermined the chance for any bold US initiatives to address the grim social realities that feed Islamic radicalism, they say. "It's been fairly disastrous," said Benjamin, who worked as a director fo r counterterrorism at the National Security Council from 1994 to 1999. "We have had some very important successes getting individual terrorists. We have done a lot to fuel the fires, and we have done a lot to encourage people to hate u s," he added in an interview. Benjamin and Simon, a former State Department official who was also at th e NSC, are co-authors of a new book titled: "The Next Attack: The Failur e of the War on Terror and a Strategy for Getting it Right" (Times Books ). Following on from their 2002 book, "The Age of Sacred Terror" (Random Hou se), Benjamin and Simon list what they call US missteps since the Sept ember 11, 2001, attacks on America. The Bush administration presents the war on terrorism as a difficult but largely successful struggle that has seen the gutting of al Qaeda's pre- September 11 leadership and prevented new attacks in the United States o ver the past four years. Bush said last month the United States and its allies had disrupted plans for 10 al Qaeda attacks since September 11, including one against West Coast targets with hijacked planes. The White House describes Iraq as a central front in the war on terrorism and says the building of democracy there will confound militant aims an d help to propel the entire Middle East region toward democracy. Benjamin and Simon's criticism of the Bush administration in Iraq follows a path similar to those of other critics, including former US nationa l security adviser Brent Scowcroft and former White House counterterrori sm chief Richard Clarke. "We may be attacked by terrorists who receive their training in Iraq, or attacked by terrorists who were inspired, organized and trained by peopl e who were in Iraq," said Simon, a Rand Corp. "(Bush) has given them an excellent American target in Iraq but in the pr ocess has energized the jihad and given militants the kind of urban warf are experience that will raise the future threat to the United States ex ponentially." For Benjamin and Simon, the war on terrorism has cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars and failed to counter a deadly global movement re sponsible for attacks in London, Madrid, Bali, Indonesia, and Sharm el-S heikh, Egypt. Osama bin Laden , they say, could have dreamed the United States would stumble so badly i n the court of Muslim public opinion. "Everyone says there's a war of ideas out there, and I agree. The sad fac t is that we're on the wrong side," said Benjamin, now a senior fellow a t the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. US fortunes could improve, the authors say, if Washington took a number of politically challenging steps, like bolstering public diplomacy with trade pacts aimed at expanding middle-class influence in countries such as Pakistan. In a Muslim world of 12 billion pe ople, as many as three-in-four hold negative views of the United States. Because anti-US rhetoric often appeals strongly to impressionable youth , Benjamin and Simon believe many of today's young Muslims will harbor g rievances against the United States for the rest of their lives. The authors believe there is little prospect for fundamental improvement in US policy under Bush "There are resource constraints, there are con straints in the realm of trade, there are political constraints," said S imon. "These are not the kinds of circumstances that favor bold new policies th at require spending political capital that it turns out the White House just doesn't have," he added. President Bush makes a statement on the 'War on Terror' at the White House while his top military advisors look on, September 28, 2005. Despi te an early victory over the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan, two fo rmer Clinton administration officials say Bush's policies have created a new haven for terrorism in Iraq that escalates the potential for Islami c violence against Europe and the United States. Republication or r edistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the pri or written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any error s or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon .