Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 39970
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2020/08/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2005/10/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39970 Activity:nil
10/4    I asked this question a month ago:
      8/25 ... if two-thirds of the voters in any three of Iraq's 18 provinces
           vote against it, the charter will be defeated [in the Oct 15
           referendum]"
           hey, is that two-thirds of people who actually vote, two-thirds
           of registered voters, or two-thirds of estimated legal voters?
           Here's the interim constitution:
           http://www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html
        Shiites and Kurds just voted on Sunday to change the rules from people
        who actually vote to "two-thirds of registered voters".
        "Given that fewer than 60 percent of registered Iraqis voted in the
        January elections, the chances that two-thirds will both show up at the
        polls and vote against the document in three provinces would appear to
        be close to nil."
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/international/middleeast/04iraq.html
        \_ I think I said that and I'll repeat it one more time.  This
           entire 'constitution' thing is for American and American only. It
           is no more than dubya's exit strategy.  Iraqis under half century
           of dictator rule has no concept of law, seperation of power,
           even basic right of citizens.  In the absent of an independent
           judicial branch and impartial law enforcer, this paper doesn't
           mean anything.   So, who cares if the constitution gets rejected
           or not?  it is not consequential.
           entire 'constitution' thing is for America and America only. It
           is no more than dubya's exit strategy.  Iraqis under a half century
           of dictator rule have no concept of law, seperation of powers,
           even the basic rights of citizens.  In the absence of an independent
           judicial branch and impartial law enforcement, this piece of paper
           doesn't mean anything.   So, who cares if the constitution gets
           rejected or not?  it is not consequential. [engrish corrected]
           \_ thanks
           \_ what do you think is the realistic best-case scenario?
                \_ (not pp) In the words of Dogbert "I think I can delay
                   cannibalism"
              \_ The 'best case scenario' I envision is having another
                 brutal dictator end up ruling Iraq.  Oppressive to its
                 people, but nevertheless be able to put down all insurgency
                 within Iraq border.  At the same time, this dictator
                 is friendly to USA/Europe and happily supply its oil to
                 Western powers... much like Saddam Hussin in the 1980s.
                 I am a left wing liberal and all, but I do have to point
                 out that there is one thing that is going our way which
                 we often overlooked.  That is, the disarray of Saudi
                 Kingdom right now is actually a benefit to our cause.
                 Traditionally, Saudi would never allow Shiite gain this
                 much influence this close to its border; and the way Saudi
                 counter Shiite influence was simply supply money and arms
                 to the Sunnis.  Can you imagine what kind of insurgent
                 we would encounter if Saudi pump money into this?
                                                -- happy Ramadan
                 \_ Gold plated AK-47s, the horror!
              \_ Mind control lasers finally kick in and the Iraqis all become
                 benevolant followers of Western-Style Democracy. Realistic
                 best case scenario is a slow withdrawl of US troops, with
                 Iraq split into three "states" controlled by the Kurds in the
                 north, Shiites in the south and a mixture in the center. The
                 oil-rich states will put in just enough money to keep the
                 center from falling into complete chaos. It'll be an ongoing
                 civil war, akin to parts of Afghanistan, with "neutalized"
                 sections in the central state cities. Extremist Islamists
                 will control some pockets within all three states, but not
                 enough to truly threaten the state governments.
                 \_ nice try.  you reall think Turkey is going to allow
                    Kurds in the north became a free state?  As soon as Kurds
                    declear independence, Turks would intervene...r
                    If I am the Turk leader, I will use this opportunity
                    to crush Kurds outside my border and sieze control of
                    northern Iraq's oil field at the same time.
                    \_ Who said free state? It'll still be Iraq. It'll be the
                       same as right before the invasion, but they will have
                       more money and control of the oil. They know they can't
                       get cocky with the Turks.
                       get cocky with the Turks and the Turks know they can't
                       get into the EU if they invade Iraq/Kurdistan.
                       \_ Just watch, Kurds in Iraq are going to help their
                          brothers across the border.  And who said that
                          Europe *WANTS* Turkey to join?  American would
                          love to use joining EU as leverage, but would
                          Europe happily accept Turkey per America's request
                          when American needs Europe more than other way
                          around?
2020/08/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
8/3     

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www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html
LAW OF ADMINISTRATION FOR THE STATE OF IRAQ FOR THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD 8 March 2004 PREAMBLE The people of Iraq, striving to reclaim their freedom, which was usurped by the previous tyrannical regime, rejecting violence and coercion in al l their forms, and particularly when used as instruments of governance, have determined that they shall hereafter remain a free people governed under the rule of law. These people, affirming today their respect for international law, especi ally having been amongst the founders of the United Nations, working to reclaim their legitimate place among nations, have endeavored at the sam e time to preserve the unity of their homeland in a spirit of fraternity and solidarity in order to draw the features of the future new Iraq, an d to establish the mechanisms aiming, amongst other aims, to erase the e ffects of racist and sectarian policies and practices. This Law is now established to govern the affairs of Iraq during the tran sitional period until a duly elected government, operating under a perma nent and legitimate constitution achieving full democracy, shall come in to being. CHAPTER ONE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES Article 1 This Law shall be called the Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period, and the phrase this Law wherever i t appears in this legislation shall mean the Law of Administration for t he State of Iraq for the Transitional Period. Gender-specific language shall apply equally to male and female . The Preamble to this Law is an integral part of this Law. Article 2 The term transitional period shall refer to the period beginnin g on 30 June 2004 and lasting until the formation of an elected Iraqi go vernment pursuant to a permanent constitution as set forth in this Law, which in any case shall be no later than 31 December 2005, unless the pr ovisions of Article 61 are applied. The first phase shall begin with the formation of a fully sove reign Iraqi Interim Government that takes power on 30 June 2004. This g overnment shall be constituted in accordance with a process of extensive deliberations and consultations with cross-sections of the Iraqi people conducted by the Governing Council and the Coalition Provisional Author ity and possibly in consultation with the United Nations. This governme nt shall exercise authority in accordance with this Law, including the f undamental principles and rights specified herein, and with an annex tha t shall be agreed upon and issued before the beginning of the transition al period and that shall be an integral part of this Law. The second phase shall begin after the formation of the Iraqi Transitional Government, which will take place after elections for the N ational Assembly have been held as stipulated in this Law, provided that , if possible, these elections are not delayed beyond 31 December 2004, and, in any event, beyond 31 January 2005. This second phase shall end upon the formation of an Iraqi government pursuant to a permanent consti tution. Article 3 This Law is the Supreme Law of the land and shall be binding in all parts of Iraq without exception. No amendment to this Law may be m ade except by a three-fourths majority of the members of the National As sembly and the unanimous approval of the Presidency Council. Likewise, no amendment may be made that could abridge in any way the rights of the Iraqi people cited in Chapter Two; extend the transitional period beyon d the timeframe cited in this Law; or affect Islam, or any other religions or sects and their rites. 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Article 6 The Iraqi Transitional Government shall take effective steps to end the vestiges of the oppressive acts of the previous regime arisin g from forced displacement, deprivation of citizenship, expropriation of financial assets and property, and dismissal from government employment for political, racial, or sectarian reasons. Article 7 A) Islam is the official religion of the State and is to be conside red a source of legislation. No law that contradicts the universally ag reed tenets of Islam, the principles of democracy, or the rights cited i n Chapter Two of this Law may be enacted during the transitional period. This Law respects the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi pe ople and guarantees the full religious rights of all individuals to free dom of religious belief and practice. Iraq is a country of many nationalities, and the Arab people in Iraq are an inseparable part of the Arab nation. Article 8 The flag, anthem, and emblem of the State shall be fixed by l aw. Article 9 The Arabic language and the Kurdish language are the two offi cial languages of Iraq. The right of Iraqis to educate their children i n their mother tongue, such as Turcoman, Syriac, or Armenian, in governm ent educational institutions in accordance with educational guidelines, or in any other language in private educational institutions, shall be g uaranteed. 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www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/international/middleeast/04iraq.html
Help Election Move Seems to Ensure Iraqis' Charter By ROBERT F WORTH Published: October 4, 2005 Iraq's Shiite and Kurdish leaders quietly adopted new rules that would ma ke it virtually impossible for the constitution to fail in the coming re ferendum. Breaking news and award winning multimedia New York Times newspaper articles Arts & Dining reviews Online Classifieds It's free and it only takes a minute!