Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 39815
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2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

2005/9/22-23 [Science/Disaster, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39815 Activity:moderate
9/22    Question for motd:
        A day ago I think there was a link explaining the downsides of
        using a nuclear bomb to try to disperse forming hurricanes/tropical
        storms.  I have two questions, does a thermonuclear (fusion) bomb
        have the same fallout effects as a nuclear bomb, and two, if not,
        wouldn't it be a great solution to the problem?  Just go nuke these
        things once they achive hurrican status (because there are too many
        wussy tropical storms).  I'm pretty sure the cost of the bomb would
        be offset by the money saved in devastation (62+ billion for New
        Orleans anyone?).  -mrauser
        \_ Pres. Bush has a dream .. where he can just put his finger
           on the eye of the hurricane and keep it from spinning..
           then it stops.. he wonders if it'll work
        \_ What John and people below have said is essentially correct --
           it's the fireball from the detonation that irradiates stuff.  If
           the fireball is close enough to the ground, then the blast radius
           is likely reduced, but the effects from radioactive fallout are
           greatly enhanced.  An airburst is much cleaner (where the fireball
           doesn't reach the ground) but has greatly enhanced blast effects.
           While air-burst detonating a nuke (hot or cold) in a hurricane
           will not produce as much fallout, any dust or other debris will
           will not produce much fallout, any dust or other debris will
           be irradiated; though compared to a ground-detonated nuke, it's
           still largely inconsequential.
        \_ You do realise that a fusion bomb NEEDS a fission bomb to
           get it going, don't you?
        \_ Someone posted this link that explains why it wouldn't work:
           http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html
        \_ Aside from the link above, what hubris.  The power and energy
           involved in a hurricane dwarfs any single nuke, and possibly
           the entire US nuke arsenal.  We humans are small.  Even our
           nukes are small.
           \_  Trust me when I say that the entire US nuclear arsenal can
               do a lot more damage than a hurricane. Can you imagine if
               8,000 warheads had hit New Orleans?
                \_ 8,000 warheads detonated in the gulf of Mexico wouldn't
                   have flooded New Orleans
                   \_ One warhead on a levee would have.
                      \_ One fertilizer bomb on a levee would have too.
                   \_ I am not sure I agree with this.
           \_  The above link was what I was referring to.  I just
               wasn't sure if fusion bombs had quite the same fallout effects.
               But as I said, we would hit these things when they are tropical
               storms, before they are fully developed.  -mrauser
               \_ The biggest affect to fallout is how close to the ground the
                  bomb detonates, not the size of the bomb.
                  \_ True, fallout usually refers to radioactive dirt that
                     was thrown into the atmosphere.  However, the other
                     kind of fallout is radioactive elements left over from
                     the fission process.  A well made "fusion" bomb will
                     produce much less of this kind of fallout than a
                     fission only bomb because the fission core has more
                     time to complete it's reaction.
                     \_ Not really.  I'd think the contribution of the
                        fissile/fusion materials are almost irrelevant compared
                        to the tons of debris that the fireball would loft up
                        into the air for a ground blast.  I think the bigger
                        issue is the radiation produced by the blast.  Fission
                        generates more of the 'bad particles' that irradiate
                        stuff -- making for much much more lethally radioactive
                        fallout in a ground burst.  It's not the fissile
                        material itself, but the stuff it contaminates while
                        exploding.
        \_ Didn't you see that episode of Dungeons & Dragons where
           the DM takes a day off and gives his powers to the paladin?
           THE WORLD IS A DELICATE BALANCE, MAN!
           \_ Best cartoon series ever.  Bring it back, please!!
        \_ Fusion nukes don't create fallout per se.  It's the fission bomb
           used to set off the fusion part of a fusion bomb that causes
           fallout.  -John
        \_ Why do you hate hurricanes?
           \_ I bet BUD DAY hates hurricanes passionately.
           \_ Because the hurricane terrorizes America. It impedes our
              freedom and liberty, and limits our rights to cheap oil from
              the Gulf. Therefore, we need to launch preemptive attacks
              on the hurricane BEFORE it hits the American soil. We
              will be resolute until our mission is accomplished.
              To the hurricane, I say bring it on, and God Bless.
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11/22   

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www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html
Back to Main FAQ Page Subject: C5c) Why don't we try to destroy tropical cyclones by nuking the m ? During each hurricane season, there always appear suggestions that one sh ould simply use nuclear weapons to try and destroy the storms. Apart fro m the fact that this might not even alter the storm, this approach negle cts the problem that the released radioactive fallout would fairly quick ly move with the tradewinds to affect land areas and cause devastating e nvironmental problems. Now for a more rigorous scientific explanation of why this would not be a n effective hurricane modification technique. amount of energy require d A fully developed hurricane can release heat energy at a rate of 5 to 20x10^13 watts and converts less than 10% of the heat into the mechanic al energy of the wind. The heat release is equivalent to a 10-megaton nu clear bomb exploding every 20 minutes. According to the 1993 World Alman ac, the entire human race used energy at a rate of 10^13 watts in 1990, a rate less than 20% of the power of a hurricane. If we think about mechanical energy, the energy at humanity's disposal is closer to the storm's, but the task of focusing even half of the energy on a spot in the middle of a remote ocean would still be formidable. Br ute force interference with hurricanes doesn't seem promising. In addition, an explosive, even a nuclear explosive, produces a shock wav e, or pulse of high pressure, that propagates away from the site of the explosion somewhat faster than the speed of sound. Such an event doesn't raise the barometric pressure after the shock has passed because barome tric pressure in the atmosphere reflects the weight of the air above the ground. For normal atmospheric pressure, there are about ten metric ton s (1000 kilograms per ton) of air bearing down on each square meter of s urface. To change a Category 5 hurricane into a Category 2 hurricane you would have to add about a h alf ton of air for each square meter inside the eye, or a total of a bit more than half a billion (500,000,000) tons for a 20 km radius eye. It' s difficult to envision a practical way of moving that much air around. Attacking weak tropical waves or depressions before they have a chance to grow into hurricanes isn't promising either. About 80 of these disturba nces form every year in the Atlantic basin, but only about 5 become hurr icanes in a typical year. There is no way to tell in advance which ones will develop. If the energy released in a tropical disturbance were only 10% of that released in a hurricane, it's still a lot of power, so that the hurricane police would need to dim the whole world's lights many ti mes a year.