Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 39503
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2005/9/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39503 Activity:moderate
9/3     Talking POINTS on Fox,  towards the end of the talk on "The lesson
        to be learned from Hurricane Katrina" says that if you want something
        done, you do it yourself. You can't rely on the government for
        anything, you must rely on yourself. Conservatism #1! Republican #1!!!
        \_ Weird, I thought law and order was the one thing conservatives
           think government is good for.
        \_ Weird, I thought the one thing conservatives and libertarians
           thought was a valid function of government was law and order.
           \_ Conservatives believe in, first and foremost, *self-reliance*,
              the "take matters with your own hands" attitude.
              \_ oh, man, things were so much better when the states all
                 printed their own money.
              \_ So you're saying that each state and local government
                 should invest billions of dollars in their own military
                 and civil infrastructure to defend themselves and deal
                 with catastrophic terrorist acts or natural disasters?
                 That sure makes a lot of sense economically.  Why create
                 a single resource that can be shared amongst the entire
                 nation when you can just reinvent the wheel at the state
                 and local levels? Because we all need to be "self-reliant"
                 \_ I'm not saying that. It's what many Republicans believe.
                    \_ really?  got a URL for any republican saying that
                       each state and local government should spend billions
                       of state/local dollars for their own military and
                       civil infrastructure to defend themselves and deal
                       with catastrophic terrorist acts and natural
                       disasters?  oh. no.  you don't.  you just made that
                       up.  welcome to the motd.
                       \_ Republicans are defending the federal government
                          and the president while blaming state and local
                          authorities for the NOLA fiasco. If you're
                          saying that it means that either (A) the state
                          did not utilize all the resources it had in
                          an effective manner or (B) the state simply
                          did not have the resources to handle the
                          disaster in the first place. But I think it's
                          clear from the scale of the disaster that the
                          only way to deal with this disaster is to have
                          an emergency response infrastructure that is well
                          beyond the scale and budget of any state like
                          LA.
                          \_ The world is not that black and white.  Local and
                             state authorities have responsibilities that they
                             shirked.  They didn't even approach a minimal
                             \_ You don't have any evidence of this other than
                                the rantings of right wing blogs.  Do you still
                                believe the governor didn't declare a state of
                                emergency?
                                \_ How many school buses were left sitting
                                   unused?  What exactly was the evacuation
                                   plan and did anyone even try to follow it?
                                   I don't read *any* blogs, thanks for trying.
                                   \_ So your evacuation plan would have been
                                      to ferry 100,000 on these school buses
                                      to be driven by all these school bus
                                      drivers who would rather take care of
                                      their own family and problems than to
                                      drive a bunch of strangers around on
                                      an already overcrowded I-10?
                                      \_ nice way to ignore the rest.  but yes
                                         if you had read the plan you'd know
                                         that the school buses they left to rot
                                         were *part* of the plan to evac those
                                         who couldn't get out on their own.
                                         look, i'm sorry if the facts are
                                         getting in the way of your agenda but
                                         the fact remains that the locals have
                                         responsibilities and failed.  here,
                                         let me save you the trouble of going
                                         on, "gwb is evil, HALIBURTON!, oil,
                                         Iraq, cheney is evil, scalia is evil,
                                         dick morris is evil, HALIBURTON!, oil,
                                         save the spotted owl, christians are
                                         evil!".  did i miss anything?
                                         \_ I've never said anything in the
                                            last 5 lines you wrote there but
                                            nice of you to make assumptions
                                            like that. I do think GWB is
                                            pretty inept. What was the *full*
                                            plan? I think the mayor calling
                                            for a mandatory evacuation and
                                            the governer requesting a state
                                            of emergency is part of the plan.
                                            I think the federal government
                                            not acting on the request is
                                            pretty criminal. If a state
                                            governer requests resources for
                                            evacuation and you don't act on
                                            it  that places the blame on
                                            the federal government, not
                                            state and local.
                             level of reasonable response or use the resources
                             they had in place prior to the event to prevent
                             a lot of the hardship we've seen in the last week.
                             Yes, of course the federal response could have
                             been better as the President already stated.  The
                             federal response was slow and somewhat inept. The
                             state/local response borders on criminal.  With
                             authority comes responsibility, something the
                             locals didn't understand and the people suffered
                             for it.  It's all fun n games being Governor or
                             Mayor until people start drowning, starving, and
                             dying of dehydration.  Then you just blame the
                             feds and start your re-election campaign early.
                             \_ How is the state and local response
                                "criminal"? The state and local govt have
                                limited resources. The federal govt has
                                much greater resources. If you exhaust your
                                state and local resources to capacity then
                                you've done everything you can. But if you're
                                a federal government with billions of dollars
                                at its disposal and you've done jack shit
                                at your disposal and you've done jack shit
                                then that's criminal
                                \_ see above.
              \_ I thought that was more of a Libertarian plank....
              \_ I think their definition of "self-reliance" meant something
                 like "give tax break to big business" and "relax
                 pollution standard so mercury is on everyone's dinner
                 plate."
                 like "give tax break to big business" and "relax pollution
                 standard so mercury is on everyone's dinner plate."
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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