9/1     How do you deal with friends who are always late?  (i.e., movie
        lunch, whatnot).  I tried to adjust to their time and showed up
        late but they always showed up later than me.
        \_ I've noticed that a lot of my mother's friends have a habit of "it
           is not time to leave until the time at which the person said to
           show up" (so if you said to be there at 6:30, they wouldn't even
           think of leaving until 6:30).  I'm not sure who puts these kinds of
           ideas into peoples' heads.  Personally, I tend to show up early to
           everything and get frustrated at anyone who is habitually late.  As
           far as how I react, I tend to vary; but most of the time all I can
           muster is a nasty glance in their direction.  Bah, I'm a pacifist.
           - jvarga
        \_ Trying to date someone who is habitually late while you're
           punctual, is like being a liberal dating someone who is
           a Bush worshipper. I dated this stupid Taiwanese girl who
           was habitually late. Things got a lot worse later on. To make
           matters worse she insisted that Bush was good because she belived
           he would protect Taiwan at all costs. She said things like "Bush
           is smart, he imports a lot of foreign oil so that when they run
           out, we'll still have a lot of oil left." Her whole family is like
           that. Fucking dumb bitch. I'm so happy to have moved on.
           I'm never dating some who's habitually late (clearly very
           disrespectful to others), and someone who's conservative,
           always talking about money and eating good food and talking
           about other wealthier people having good lives.
           \_ very typical Taiwanese.   please don't flatter her with the
              word "conservative."  Her (and most of Taiwanese) are not
              nearly sophiscated.  They would align themselves with anyone
              who is against mainland China.
        \_ Just let them show up late. If they don't show up when you
           asked them to, just go without them. For example, if it's
           a movie, just buy your tix and everyone else's and go inside.
           Let the flake buy his/her own tickets and sit alone.
        \_ How late are we talking? 5 min? 10? 30?  You could always just
           add a half hour in front of the meeting time when you tell it
           to them.  Movie starts at 6:30?  Tell them it starts at 6.
           Other than that, just put up with them or stop hanging out with
           them.
        \_ Stop inviting them.
        \_ My gf is like this.  Have you let your friend know?  Be firm
           when letting him/her know.  Her friends have started asking me
           to get her to an event on time.  Some people never change.
        \_ I was in your situation. Hope: change them or adapt to their
           schedule. Reality: people will NEVER change. What's the incentive
           for these people to show up early? They don't care. Why should
           they change? My x-gf was late. The longer I knew her, the
           later she became. People don't change. Hope is good, but
           you gotta live with reality.
        \_ Asian women are the WORST. It's a sign of things to come.
        \_ A friend of mine (you know who you are) had a reputation for
           being late or flat out flaking on various social events.  One
           day he showed up 10 minutes early for a board game night.  I
           stared at him blankly through the doorway, said "I disbelieve,"
           and shut the door.  (I did let him in later though)  -meyers
           \_ In his defense, he had a crazy work schedule at the time.
              -meyers
        \_ Learn to work around it.  If you need to be somewhere at a set
           time tell them you will pick them up about 30 minutes before you
           really need to pick them up.  If you can live with things just
           know that they will be late.  If it really bothers you can just
           confront them about it, but do it nicely.  That will probably
           only work if they are a close friend or better though.
           \_ No, don't work around it. You don't need to put up with
              bullshit. It's painful to move on, but it's better in the long
              term.
              \- SF is the flake capital of the world so you have to have
                 a policy on this. On the other hand, it is pretty situational
                 both in terms of circumstances and personalities, so here
                 are some things I factor in ...
                 I think if somebody shows up late for a party or hanging
                 out with a bunch of people in a bar for the afternoon
                 it doesnt matter much, but if they are habitually late
                 for things where it "matters" [like you are waiting
                 outside a theater with tix] I wouldnt put up with it.
                 I suppose at some point you may want to figure out whether
                 they have some issue like inflexible work situation or if it
                 is a matter of just not valuing your time or overbooking
                 on their part. Also you have to figure out what your stakes
                 are ... it's easier to write off an acquaitance by just
                 stopping inviting them, than say a gf. And then you need
                 to decide whether to deal with it passively [stop inviting
                 them] or confront them ["it just seems to be you arent
                 respecting my time by keeping me sitting here for an
                 hour" aka "do i look like a bitch?"].  I have to say
                 in this era of pretty ubiquitous cell phones if
                 somebody is going to use "i was stuck on the bridge"
                 as an excuse and doesnt call, they lose big points. I
                 suppose at some level I try to figure out of the
                 reason/intention is: 1. they dont have their act
                 together 2. they have more importnat things/things
                 they prefer to do [like not commiting to show up in
                 hope of getting a better offer] 3. they simply have
                 no regard for other people's time.  usually the last
                 one is correlated with other forms of freeriding.
                 \_ Amen. But that doesn't keep people from being
                    total assholes. Sometimes I think that it IS
                    intentional. They know just how much it pisses
                    you off so they just do it even more.
                    \- i dont think it is intentional. i think they just dont
                       care. it's the "i need to be true to myself" mentality.
        \_ Someone who is always late either doesn't give a shit about
           you, has a totally crazy life or both.  You need to figure out
           which it is and decide if you want to deal with that.
           \_ They could also have mental problems (OCD or others).
        \_ It's situational.  When I was single, I was always on time or early.
           When I was married, I was on time to somewhat late.  Now with kids, I
           am always late no matter how well I try to get ready.
           \_ yea, blame it on the wife and kids.
              I have a friend who has 5 kids from 2 to 16, and she is
              never late.
              \_ Maybe she's not a good parent and dumps the load to her husband or
                 mom.  I could do that if I really want to meet my schedule.  When
                 you're baby is fuzzy or wants to play, there's no way you get out
                 you're baby is fuzzy or wants to play, there's no way to get out
                 it unless, you dump the load to someone else.
        \_ you guys need to relax, take it easy and take your time to
           do things at a leisurely pace.  why rush here rush there
           everyday?  it's an industrial society sickness.
           \- becuase restaurants wont seat you till your whole
              party is there, because movies will start before
              you are there, because i dont bring my laptop or the
              you are there, because i dont bring by laptop or the
              economist to a bar so i may not have anything to do
              for the half and hour you are not there. if you are
              meeting me at my house, i dont really care if you are
              30 min late. situational.
        \_ Make them come to your house and pick you up before doing
           anything together. That way you can surf the net, do your
           laundry, etc, while waiting for them. I usually do this with
           one friend of mine who is always late.
           \- Do you live in Berkeley or the Southbay? What is feasible
              in a small student community or a place with little congestion
              or parking problems is not reasonable in say SF or LA ... and
              it's not always a two person affair. Again the diagnosis and
              remedies are highly situational.