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| 2005/8/26-29 [Reference/Military] UID:39294 Activity:moderate |
8/26 Okay, I want to buy a gun. I don't need it, but just wanna get
one cause it's fun and cool, and it's one thing I can't do in
most other countries. I lean towards not allowing guns, but
on a personal basis, if it's legal, I feel like exercising my
right and freedom, and also it feels good to annoy mot.
what gun should I get? where can I get a basic gun safety
training? and where can I go shoot?
beretta? glock? s&w revolver? where do I buy them?
\_ Get 2 Desert Eagles in silver and don't look back
\_ If you're in the SF/BA, Target Master's in milpitas is an
excellent indoor shooting range with a great selection of
weapons that you can rent. Their staff is good and willing to
answer questions from novices. My suggestion is to go to a
range where you're comfortable, get your HSC, try out a
selection of weapons in different calibers, then make a
decision. I'd suggest Beretta (92/96), Smith Wesson 490*, HK
USP, or maybe Sig 22*. For a beginner, you might want to start
decision. I'd suggest Beretta (92/96), Smith Wesson 40[03|06|13],
HK USP, or maybe Sig 22*. For a beginner, you might want to start
with a revolver in .22 to get used to handling a firearm, then
granduate to a 9mm semi. Email me if you have questions. -mice
\_ If you're in the SF/BA, Target Master's in milpitas is an excellent
indoor shooting range with a great selection of weapons that you
can rent. Their staff is good and willing to answer questions from
novices. My suggestion is to go to a range where you're
comfortable, try out a selection of weapons in different calibers,
get your HSC, then make a decision. I'd suggest Beretta (92/96),
Smith Wesson 490*, HK USP, or maybe Sig 22*. For a beginner, you
might want to start with a revolver in .22 to get used to handling
a firearm, then granduate to a 9mm semi. Email me if you have
questions. -mice
\_ How about Sig Pro vs. Sig 22*?
\_ Target Masters seconded. http://www.thegunplace.com/range.htm
--erikred
\_ What is a S&W 490*?
\_ Smith and Wesson 4003 TSW, 4006 TSW, 4013 TSW -- typo on my
part. Corrected -- thanks! -mice
\_ Don't get a glock. -- ilyas
\_ So are you guys against all polymer frames or just Glocks? What
about a Sig Pro?
\_ Another thing about glocks I forgot to mention. They, uh ..
they tend to explode. See 'the glock ka-boom faq':
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html -- ilyas
\_ Seconded. -John
\_ Thirded. Damn thing was too small for my hand. --erikred
\_ Fourthed, I guess. I loathed the pull - felt uneven. -mice
\_ Fifthed. Feels like a blocky piece of crap in my
hands. -geordan
\_ I've heard the "don't buy a glock" advice now from
quite a few people who know guns. So if people in the
know all hate them so much, why are they so successful?
Brilliant marketing? What?
\_ They are successful because Glocks have one advantage
-- they are _extremely_ reliable and resistant to
shocks, dirt, sand, water, etc. However, there are
plenty of guns that have comparable durability to
Glocks without all the, well, suck. -- ilyas
\_ The marketing helps too. I just hate the balance on
them--it doesn't feel like a gun. -John
\_ I thought a lot of the law enforcement use was
because of the safety. -geordan
\_ Glocks have a safety? -- ilyas
\_ They have a "trigger safety" and internal
safeties against non-triggered fire.
\_ Not a safety safety. I meant the "dropping
it on the ground" safety. Safeness. Fine,
I'll find a /. article to torture you with.
-geordan
\_ Glocks have almost no safety features. This
makes them very mechanically simple, much
less likely to misbehave in the hands of a
panicky or freaked out cop/soldier, and
very, VERY cheap. It is seen as a true
professional's gun in its stripped down
simplicity. This makes it somewhat less
safe for anyone other than really hardcore
gun people or professionals. That's the
theory, anyhow. *shrug* I still don't like
them very much. As a side note, no
modern semi-auto will (should) fire if
dropped, whether it's in the cocked state,
safetied, decocked, etc. IIRC, James
Bond's Walther PPK was actually notoriously
bad in this respect. -mice
\_ I am not sure I believe this. Lots of
cops shoot themselves in the foot
(literally!) with glocks every year.
It _is_ an excellent gun if you plan
to roam the jungles and fieldstrip it
often enough to appreciate how few parts
there are. -- ilyas
\_ Well, yeah. I know CCCSO considers
the glock an out-of-policy weapon for
exactly that reason. That's partly
why, I believe, it's viewed as a true
professional's weapon -- that if you
don't know what you're doing, you'll
shoot yourself in the foot, etc -- but
that's counterbalanced by the gun's
simplicity/reliability and its ease
of use right out of the holster, etc.
Personally, I think that reputation
speaks of a mentality which has more
to do with machismo and less to do
with pragmatism. I mean, as you
pointed out above, there's no reason
why you can't carry your Smith cocked
and hot...but I think that's a great
way to make an ass of yourself by
shooting your toe off with your own
service weapon. -mice
\_ So if I have small hands it's good?
\_ Maybe. Beretta also makes a 92/96 model with slimmer
grips (the Vertec). -mice
\_ Shooting on a regular basis can get pricy. Owning a gun just to
\_ Highly dependant on caliber, dude. .22 is cheap.
\_ People who shoot regularly often invest in reloading equipment.
This makes shooting significantly less expensive as a hobby.
As a bonus, you can become a powder/ballistics geek. -- ilyas
have a gun is kinda stupid. There are a few places to go for a
handgun safety class. Train and learn first before you start
popping off about gun makers and calibers. Where do you live?
\_ This post added nothing to the thread at all, aside from you
taking the opportunity to declare your semi-informed opinions.
\_ http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Guns/Education
My brother in law (a collector more into rifles than pistols)
says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent. As the
previous poster reiterates, definitely get your HSC before
handling a gun -- it's the absolute minimum in terms of
safety the state of CA requires in order to own. More
advanced casses are highly recommended, though. You could
probably also call Target Master's for better pointers to
other gun clubs that offer classes. This all assumes that
you're in the BA, of course. If not, then you could probably
just call the local gun store (google/yahoo can help find one).
They usually somewhat connected as a community. -mice
says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent. As was said
before, definitely get your HSC before handling a gun -- it's
the absolute minimum in terms of safety the state of CA
requires in order to own. More advanced casses are highly
My brother-in-law (a collector more into rifles than pistols)
says that the Chabot Gun Club is pretty decent. Yeah,
definitely get your HSC before handling a gun -- it's the
absolute minimum in terms of safety the state of CA requires
in order to own. More advanced casses are highly
in order to own. More advanced classes are highly
recommended, though. You could probably also call Target
Master's for better pointers to other gun clubs that offer
classes. This all assumes that you're in the BA, of course.
classes. This all assumes that you're in the SF/BA, of course.
If not, then you could probably just call the local gun store
(google/yahoo can help find one). They usually somewhat
connected as a community. -mice
(google/yahoo/YP can help find one). They're usually somewhat
connected as a community, and are likely to be knowledgable
and willing to help. -mice
\_ Depends on your ergonomics, and if you want a safety. Never
depend on a safety, but many jurisdictions like LA are getting
draconian about "safety features." Some guns have loaded chamber
indicators as well. Like with cars, the imports usually cost
more. But going to any indoor range in CA will never prepare
you for when you really have to use your gun. Get a shotgun
for that. Drop me a line for more. -jlee
\_ I really like my WWII vintage Remington/Colt .45 M1911. It feels
more like an heirloom than a soulless tool, and is a pleasure
to shoot. There was a _lot_ of discussion of "how-to" gun safety
and mechanics type of stuff on the motd about a year ago, look at
KAIS archive; a lot of people mentioned good tips about what to
look out for, where to go, etc. -John
\_ For most things I stick to dual berettas, but I usually
carry a desert eagle or dual ingrams to deal with tricky
situations. -mpayne
\_ I dunno, man. My glock has always served me well -- even in the
most extreme situations. -gfreeman
\_ Word on the street is that you do your best work with your
crowbar.
\_ Guns are for pussies -- I like SWORD! That's a personal
weapon. -lwang
\_ Do any motd people have Class III/Title II or whatever weapons?
Silencers, machineguns?
\_ I hear John has a tank.
\_ I didn't get the tank because I had myself declared psycho
in lieu of having to spend 15 weeks being told by farm boys
to do pushups. I did, however, acquire an arsenal from a
colleague under some weird circumstances recently, and a
friend in Germany has a bunch of machine guns and sniper
rifles and other scary shit. -John
\_ Don't have them, but just two weeks ago I was out visiting
relatives in Atlanta who are in the gun business, and got
to try a whole host of stuff that you can't get in the
good ol' People's Republic of California.
\_ That's the People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornia, fool
\_ Should be Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
(DPRK).
\_ I hate the smell of motd humor in the evening.
\_ All hail Kimnold Jongilnegger!
\-Hasta La Vista, PSB
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/LBL/Gubernator+Chu.jpg
\_ Don't forget to visit http://www.nra.org and sign up
\_ You might want to consider this gun:
http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1734 |
| 7/8 |
|
| www.thegunplace.com/range.htm TARGET MASTERS WEST AND THE PAVILION GUN RANGE OF NORTHERN CALIFORNIA Two of Californias finest indoor gun ranges! |
| www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html Catastrophic failures may be caused by a variety of problems, but in general a kB! The case failure occurs when pressure inside the cartridge increases to the point that it cannot be contained by the case and the material of the case fails, allowing hot gases to escape from the ruptured case web at damagingly high velocities. The resulting uncontained forces can blow the magazine out of the gun, destroy the locking block, cause the tip of the trigger to be snipped off, ruin the trigger bar, rupture the barrel, peel the forward edge of the slide at the ejection port up, and do other nasty things. In general, Glocks tend to contain case failures fairly well, but under some circumstances they can cause injury as well as damage to one's gun. involving a Glock 21 and a Winchester factory overcharge. Additionally, there is some evidence of there being another cause of a kB!... Model 20 cracked receiver 3 Which Glock models are affected? all with reloaded or remanufactured rounds by most accounts. Then came the following from Todd Louis Green: At the S&W IDPA Winter Championship this past Saturday (28 February) I p ersonally saw a Glock Model 34 with its barrel split top from bottom al l the way through the breech. I had my Canon D10 with me but felt it would have appeared unprofessiona l to ask for some photos or try to get contact info for the owner. Most Glocks will do this to some degree, especially those improperly maintained. These occur mostly in homemade reloads or in commercially remanufactured ammunition, but have occurred in factory ammunition as well. See Annotation #5 Ostensibly as a measure to promote feed reliability, Glock chamber mouths are slightly oversized. One can test this by removing the barrel from the Glock, dropping a factory round into the chamber, and observing that there is brass exposed at the six o'clock position. Take a fired case and note that there is a slight engraving if not actual bulge around the case web, which is most pronounced in the area of the case which, upon firing, was in the six-o'clock position. Unlike most rifle handloaders, those who reload for handguns do not as a habit segment their fired cases by generation, and each time a case is re-sized for reloading, the brass "works" and weakens through enbrittlement. s have been documented with factory ammunition, but most of them occur with either commercial or homemade reloads. s do, of course, occur in other guns, but no one appears to be keeping accurate statistics for most of them. Many 1911-style handguns have partially unsupported case mouths, and numerous case separations have occurred in these guns. s occur with commercially remanufactured or personally reloaded ammunition. Successive re-sizing and firing of a case result in eventual weakening of the brass, increasing the probability of case failure. The partially unsupported chamber in the Glock exacerbates this problem. see Annotation #4 ), this can lead to a catastrophic failure. with an after-market 357 SIG barrel + Install a barrel with a fully supported chamber. Custom barrel makers include Bar-Sto Precision Machine and... s, not only in Glocks but USP40s with barrels which do provide full case support. s are the fault of the propellant or the reloader, but it is clear that they are occurring in disproportionate numbers. told Speir on background: "A lot of the blown up Models 22 and 23 we've been seeing has involved Accurate Arms #5... AmBack TGZ Forum Tango George Zulu Unsupported chamber Out-of-Battery Datum I recently bought a BarSto aftermarket barrel for a Glock 20 and made the following measurements: My stock Glock 20 barrel leaves 0306" of the case unsupported over the f eed ramp. My BarSto Glock 20 barrel leaves 0224" of the case unsupported over the feed ramp. Tha t leaves at least 010" unsupported thin case wall in the stock barrel a nd 0024" in the BarSto. Clark Magnuson Out-of-Battery Quote "The problem is with the pistol. The design of the disconnector on the Gl ocks allow them to fire with the slide slightly out of battery -- this i s a more significant problem with higher pressure cartridges. FWIW, if Glock modified the disconnector the out of battery failures could be significantly reduced." Ken Hackathorn, World Class Firearms Instructor The Apparent Para-bellum Exemption... Don't forget that the chamber walls are almost twice as thick on the 9mm so it is stronger too. There has been a lot of discussion in the Glock-l mailing list about usin g reloads in Glocks. I called the folks at Dillon Precision seve ral months ago to ask why some of my 10mm reloads were not being properl y resized in my Dillon RL550B press with Dillon's best pistol dies. The guy immediately asked if I was using brass that had been fired in a Gloc k When I said that was the case, he explained that the oversized chambe r of the larger caliber Glocks allows the brass to expand too much to be properly resized near the head, if the loads are warm enough. I have an aftermarket barrel in one of my Glock 20s and it has a noticabl y smaller chamber... factory ammo that practically rattles around in my factory Glock 20's chamber barely wiggles in the aftermarket barrel's ch amber. The chamber seems to be more supported under the feed ramp on the aftermarket barrel, but it isn't fully supported. Your American Backyard AmBack This page, as with all pages in The Gun Zone, was designed with CSS, and displays at its best in a CSS1-compliant browser... However, while much of the formatting may be "lost," due to the wonderful properties of CSS, this document should still be reada ble. |
| dmoz.org/Recreation/Guns/Education -> dmoz.org/Recreation/Guns/Education/ Australia - Firearms Information Accreditation & Licensing Inform ation - Firearms information, security licence accreditation, revolver and semi-auto reaccreditation, for New South Wales Category H licence, ACT Class H licence, Victoria handgun licence. CA - Bay Area Professionals for Firearms Safety - Offers classes in firearms safety, basic pistol, and personal protection. Objective is to educate and train the public in the safe ownership, use, and storage of firearms. CA - BullsEye Tactical Firearms Training - Firearms training in t he Basic Handgun Safety, Personal Protection (CCW), Advanced Handgun, Basic Rifle Safety, Assault Rifleman, and Precision Marksman courses. CA - Inland Empire Firearms Training - California hunter safety, basic pistol, personal protection, gun safety, shooting sports, home firearms safety, and NRA instructor's courses provided. 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MI - Stephen E Ellis, Firearms Safety Instructor - Firearms Safe ty Instruction and Information. Basic Pistol, Personal Protection, Home Firearm Safety, and Basic Shotgun courses provided. MN - Custom Defense Solutions - Specializing in concealed carry a nd pistol lessons. Beginner through advanced lessons as well as custom designed training solutions. MN - Final Option - Advanced firearms training instruction and sp ecialized tactical training for law enforcement agencies, military, counter-terrorism personnel and qualified civilains. MN - Plane Cents Self-Defense - Minnesota Permit to Carry trainin g courses taught by AACFI certified instructors. Emphasis on the legal aspects associated with carrying a hand gun. MO - Chapman Academy of Practical Shooting - Providing advanced t actical and defensive pistol training to civilians, law enforcement and military, in three day weekend and five day classes. National Rifle Association - MyNRA - Everything firearm related. The site includes information on Second Amendment rights, NRA Training and Education, Politics and Legislation pertaining to gun rights. NC - North Carolina Gun Trainers - State and NRA certified firear ms training, specializing in concealed carry weapons permits and private protective services armed guard permits. NRA Headquarters: Safety, Education & Public Service - Site secti on for educating the young about guns not being toys. The purpose of the Eddie Eagle Program promotes the protection and safety of children. CE Concepts - Provides modern firearms a nd self-defense training for personal combat by integrating tactical pistol instruction, edged weapons and unarmed combat tactics. NY - CCW - Pistol Licensing Service - A personalized, professiona l service for those seeking a pistol license for home/business protection, concealed carry, target shooting/hunting or armed guard employment. NY - Sportsmen's Association for Firearms Education - New York or ganization concerned with the rights of firearms owners. Reviews proposed legislation from federal to local levals that affect same. NY - The James Dinan School - Specializing in advanced pistol mar ksmanship, safety and New York penal law. Certified to teach all NRA courses, including instructor and training counselor workshops. OH - Targething Firearms Training - Certified firearms training c lasses. Beginner, intermediate, advanced, carry concealed, personal protection, and state mandated. OK - Shoot-N-Iron Practical Shooting and Training Academy - Defen sive and competitive handgun, rifle, and shotgun training classes. Small arms civilian, law enforcement, and military self defense, tactical, and marksmanship training. Personal Defense Training - GA - Basic to advanced training in sh ooting, unarmed self-defense and edged weapons to individuals, corporations and law enforcement/military personnel. Project HomeSafe - Putting a Lock on Safety - Project HomeSafe is a nationwide program, sponsored by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), whose purpose is to promote safe firearms handling and storage practices among all firearms owners through safety education messages and the distribution of free gun lockin... |
| www.nra.org Attend Town Hall Meetings and Urge Passage of S 397 in US House Top Stories... Anti-Gun Measures Continue to be Considered by the Califo rnia Legislature! Click here for the Spring 2005 issue of the Law Enforcem ent Activities Division Newsletter! PUBLICATIONS Click on the links below to view the NRA's monthly publications.... |
| www.realtechnews.com/posts/1734 Amazon Honor System How to Make an Actual Sniper Rifle for the Classic Nintendo Game: Duck Hunt August 26, 2005 By Alice Hill RealTechNews One of the first games I ever played was the console classic Duck Hunt. The Nintendo NES system I purchased came with a copy of Super Mario (I still LOVE that game) a copy of Duck Hunt and a bright orange gun. One of the most popular stories we posted was the online version of Duck Hunt you can play anytime on the Web. Two Arrested in US Computer Worm Probe (AP) AP - Authorities in Morocco and Turkey have arrested two people believed responsible for a computer worm that infected networks at US companies and government agencies earlier this month. FCC Delays Cutoff of Internet Phone Users (AP) AP - A deadline has been extended that could have left tens of thousands of people without their Internet phone service next week. County Uses Black Boxes for Drivers (AP) AP - A judge in Oakland County is using black box technology to keep an eye on drivers who repeatedly run afoul of the law. The boxes have been installed in the vehicles of 14 defendants since 52-1 District Court Judge Brian MacKenzie created the program last year. Student Hackers Quietly Offered Deals (AP) AP - Most of the 13 students accused of tinkering with their school-issued laptop computers to download programs and spy on administrators are being offered deals in which the felony charges would be dropped, lawyers and a family member say. Libraries Offering Audiobook Downloads (AP) AP - A new way to borrow audiobooks from the library involves no CDs, no car trips, no fines and no risk of being shushed. Google Talk gives boost to XMPP (InfoWorld) InfoWorld - Google's entry this week into the IM space gave a high-profile shot in the arm to the open IM protocol XMPP (Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol). The decision to base Google Talk on the XML-based XMPP framework -- combined with Google's considerable market clout -- could shake up stalled IM interoperability efforts, or at the very least gives a big lift to a grassroots Internet standard. |