7/22    When did police in Britain start carrying guns?  Thx.
        \_ a long while ago
           \_ About how long?  10yrs?  20yrs?  Because I remember that when I
              was a kid I heard that police in Britain didn't carry guns.
              \_ Except for the Hercules team in NYPD, some police in London
                 carry MP-5s out in the open.
              \_ Some police, some definition of carry, since the 70's at
                 least.  http://www.polfed.org/0703firearms-and-police.pdf
                 \_ "In the UK there are about, 100 firearms deaths a year in
                    the recorded crime statistics, about double that number in
                    Canada and, under 50 in Japan.  The figure in the United
                    States is more than 10,000. Even adjusting for population,
                    this is a huge difference."
                    Firearms deaths a year per million people, and population:
                    UK:           1.7    60,441,457
                    Canada:       6.1    32,805,041
                    Japan:      < 0.4   127,417,244
                    US:         >33.8   295,734,134
                    What a great country we're in.
                    \_ it is difficult to compace just on the basis of deaths
                       per capita.  there are way too many confouding factors
                       at work here.  Try comparing areas based on pre/port
                       at work here.  Try comparing areas based on pre/post
                       gun law changes.
                       \_ True.  It's like apples and oranges.
                          I do seem to recall a study that showed that crime
                          went up in Austrailia after they banned guns.
                          Either way most studies on this sort of thing are
                          highly biased anyways.  I believe that the right to own
                          guns is a crucial freedom and just because some people
                          abuse it doesn't mean you take that away from everyone.
                          If you really want to reduce crime, actually enforce the
                          laws we have now.  For starters, take guns away from
                          known criminals.  This is something the NRA has been
                          pushing for for a while now.
                    \_ That is nice you chose to omit how many people's lives
                       are saved by gun ownership per year. Just ask any
                       criminal what they think about gun-control. Also,
                       have you ever questioned just what majority of those
                       people who die are? Gang members.
                    \_ We need guns to protect ourselves from the government.
                       When did Japan or Canada revolt? Canada still swears
                       by the Queen for God's sake. Guns make this country
                       what it is, for better and worse.
                       \_ Canada is a completely independent country from the
                          UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland since 1982.
                          \_ "Canada is a ... Commonwealth Realm with
                              Queen Elizabeth II as its reigning monarch."
                              (from Wikipedia "Monarchy in Canada")
                             \_ Yeah.  QE II reigns UK, and QE II reigns
                                Canada.  But UK and Canada are separate
                                independent countries.  It just happens that
                                their monarchs are the same monarch.
                             \_ From the Wikipedia "Monarchy in Canada" page
                                you're referring to:
                                "Although Queen Elizabeth II is also monarch of
                                the United Kingdom and several other
                                Commonwealth countries, each nation - including
                                Canada - is sovereign and independent of the
                                others."
                                \_ Yes, and they swear to the Queen as I
                                   said. They are still ruled by the Queen
                                   of England, even though they are not
                                   England.
                                   \_ Well, you also said "When did ... Canada
                                      revolt?".  Canada already revolted in
                                      1982 without guns.  And if you are to say
                                      Canada is ruled by the Queen of UK, then
                                      it's also valid to say UK is ruled by the
                                      Canada is ruled by the Queen of UK, it's
                                      equivalent to saying UK is ruled by the
                                      Queen of Canada.
                                      \_ This is funny because the Queen
                                         of the UK is also the Queen of
                                         Canada.  Ha!
                                      \_ The two are not equivalent. Canada
                                         was a colony under the King. It
                                         still is. At no point was England
                                         subject to Canada, nor did Canada
                                         have their own King. You know this.
                       \_ That must be why when England invaded Iraq, Canada
                          had to go too, they had no choice.
                          \_ Are you talking about the Anglo-Iraqi war in 1941
                             or Op. Iraqi Freedom?
                             \_ The latter
                                \_ Then the UK had no control over Canada,
                                   since Canada was completely independent by
                                   then.
                                   \_ Sigh
                    \_ http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/319/19/1256
                       "Although similar to Seattle in many ways, Vancouver has
                       adopted a more restrictive approach to the regulation of
                       handguns... [T]he relative risk of death from homicide,
                       adjusted for age and sex, was significantly higher in
                       Seattle than in Vancouver."
                        \_ Yup and I'm sure you can choose another Canadian
                           city, match it up with a different US city and get
                           the opposite results.  In fact, if those numbers are
                           accurate above (6.1 vs 33.8) it has to be true.
                           \_ Why do you believe that? Tell me the Canadian
                              city where the risk of homicide approaches
                              America.
                           \_ They chose Vancouver and Seattle because they
                              seem so similar culturally, financially, etc.
                              \_  Yes, they seem, but they are quite different
                                  culturally.  Canadians think quite differently
                                  than Americans about many things, guns included.
                                  They also seem to not mind having less freedom.
                                  Just look at their health care system.  What a mess.