Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 38512
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2005/7/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38512 Activity:nil 66%like:38536
7/10    Real lesson of Vietnam
        http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson070405.html    -jblack
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/5/9-6/4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:54384 Activity:nil
5/9     If U.S. doesn't do assissination, then what do you call
        Operation Neptune Spear aka "Mission Kill Bin Laden"?
        \_ I think theoretically the difference is that the goal of one is
           "kill him/her", while the goal of the other is "capture him/her,
           and don't hestitate to shoot with the possibly of killing if he/she
           and don't hesitate to shoot with the possibly of killing if he/she
	...
2009/12/5-26 [Politics/Domestic/911, Recreation/Humor] UID:53568 Activity:nil
12/4    you know the 1999 ending of ST:DS9 shows the protagonists working
        as terrorists, and all worried about a police state coming for the
        federation.  Funny timing, no?
        \_ At that point in time there was a bit of sympathy people were
           starting to extend to "freedom fighters"; vis a vis all the
           popular support many pro-palestine movements were going on -
	...
2009/8/12-9/1 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:53268 Activity:moderate
8/12    Thanks for destroying the world's finest public University!
        http://tinyurl.com/kr92ob (The Economist)
        \_ Why not raise tuition? At private universities, students generate
           revenue. Students should not be seen as an expense. UC has
           been a tremendous bargain for most of its existence. It's time
           to raise tuition to match the perceived quality of the
	...
2009/5/18-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53007 Activity:kinda low
5/18    how come we interfere with Bosnia civil war, yet we don't even
        bother to raise complains about Sri Lankans' genocide toward
        their Tamili minorities?
        \_ it's a protest against recording artist M.I.A.
        \_ because our military capacity is overtaxed based on our
           insane implementation of PNAC's ridiculous vision of a
	...
2009/4/6-13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:52809 Activity:low
4/6     The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to
        "declare a cybersecurity emergency" and shut down or limit Internet
        traffic in any "critical" information network "in the interest of
        national security." The bill does not define a critical information
        network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to
        the president.
	...
2009/2/5-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:52523 Activity:nil
2/5     Funny, the country that started WW 1 and 2, and killed millions
        are viewed as the most favoriable.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7873050.stm
        \_ They haven't killed as many Vietcongs, Korean commies, and
           Super EVIL Terrorists as America for the past 50 years.
           \_ Vietcong is already plural. You wouldn't say Chineses. --tt
	...
2009/1/9-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:52346 Activity:high
1/9     What You Don't Know About Gaza:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/opinion/08khalidi.html?em
        \_ "As the occupying power, Israel has the responsibility under the
            Fourth Geneva Convention to see to the welfare of the civilian
            population of the Gaza Strip."
           Rubbish. Hamas, as the elected government, is responsible for the
	...
2008/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52015 Activity:high
11/17   How Obama got elected
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8
        \_ I'm not sure what asking people what they think of 150k for
           clothes, barney frank (here's a hint, HE IS GAY!!!! LULZ!!!!!)
           and harry reid accomplishes.
           You know why Obama won?  He's a good speaker, he has a good
	...
2008/10/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51669 Activity:nil
10/24   Palin: "I don't know" if abortion clinic bombers are terrorists
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27343688
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hu1NeI4M1k
        \_ I am so pro Abortion.  Abortions for all!
           \_ Miniature american flags for others...
        \_ Bombing for Jesus! Talk about moral relativism!
	...
2008/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51440 Activity:nil
10/8    Which candidate pals around with terrorists?
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/4zeonz
        \_ Wait, they're recycling this?  Wow, salon sure has dropped in
           quality.
           \_ Dittohead Desperation Level: Chartruse
            \_ With faint hints of perrywinkle.
	...
2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
7/21    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cold_War_pilot_defections
        This week's food for thought, brought to you by People's
        Republic of Berkeley: Did you know that many US pilots defected to
        communist Cuba?  South Korea pilots defected to communist
        North Korea? Iran<->Iraq pilots defected to each other?
        W Germany pilots defected to E Germany? Taiwan/ROC pilots
	...
2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
	...
2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
        http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
           should never admit mistakes.
           \_ Most "tea party" conservatives still support the war. It is the
              weak-kneed moderates that have turned against America.
	...
2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
2/16    "Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq"
        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Duh.  the best thing that could ever happen to a country is
           the US declaring war on it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
           the US winning a war with it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
           can't believe we elected this retread.
           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/25/opinion/1248069087414/my-tortured-decision.html
        Where is the apology jblack?
	...
2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
           war machine.  Looking for "justifications" for it is like looking
           for sense in the necronomicon.  Just accept it and move on.
        \_ When we fight with Red China, what nation will we use as a proxy?
	...
2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
        Has it been declared that we didn't find WMD in iraq? (think so).
        So why did we go into iraq (what was the gain), and if nobody really
        knows, why is nobody looking for the reason?
        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
2009/10/1-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:53421 Activity:kinda low
10/1    Signs that Communist China is really opening up!
        http://www.csua.org/u/p6f (news.search.yahoo.com)
        \_ WOW that is TOTALLY AWESOME. I'd love to see a porn
           of this genre. Asian. Lesbians. Military. That
           is just awesome.
           \_ This unit has unusually good drill and ceremony discipline.
	...
Cache (5165 bytes)
www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson070405.html
home July 4, 2005 Real Lesson of Vietnam by Victor Davis Hanson Tribune Media Services Under fire, the president addressed the nation Tuesday night to reassure the American people that, for all the depressing news of bombings and de ath, we are winning the war and a free, democratic Iraq is key to Middle East salvation. Just recently, Congress grilled administration officials over the costs o f the war, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was again asked to resi gn. Meanwhile, President Bush had assured the visiting Iraqi prime minis ter that neither a timetable for US withdrawal nor a cutoff of support is planned. All this near panic arose from continual news of bombings, beheadings and chaos in Iraq. In the roller-coaster opinion polls, the good news of th e January elections, Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon and an "Arab Spring" of reform is old, replaced by a long, hot summer for Americans in the S unni Triangle. The al Qaedists and former Ba'athists anticipate another impending US r etreat, like the 1984 flight from Lebanon or the 1993 exit from Somalia after the horrific dragging of American bodies in the streets of Mogadis hu. Both pullouts, enshrined in al Qaeda propaganda, contributed to the pre-September 11, 2001, folklore that the United States lacked the stami na to defeat terrorists. So the media-savvy terrorists have redirected their attacks yet again b ack to American troops. Just last week, female Marines, who allay Iraqi unease over the searching of Iraqi women at checkpoints, were blown up a board an armored truck returning to base from a checkpoint. In response, the ghost of Vietnam is again being conjured. Given this ten dency to compare the two wars, we really should re-examine the horror of Vietnam, specifically its final years. By 1973, the goal of fashioning a South Korean-like, noncommunist entity in Indochina was supposedly obtained and the war over. The Paris peace a greements recognized two autonomous Vietnamese states. If the communist North, and its Soviet and Chinese patrons, saw 1973 as a breather rather than a peace, American officials at least promised the South material support and air cover if the communists reinvaded. They did just that in spring 1975, barreling down Highway 1 with conventi onal Soviet tanks. Americans apparently did not want another quarter-cen tury commitment to a second Demilitarized Zone to ward off a perpetual c ommunist threat from the north. By 1974, a series of congressional acts radically cut funding of US military support of South Vietnam. The Sai gon government abruptly collapsed in April 1975. Another million were either killed, imprisoned or sent to re-education camps. The perception of American weakness prompted communist adventurism from A fghanistan to Central America. Few in the Middle East thought there were any consequences to taking American hostages, or killing American soldi ers and diplomats. The Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein al ike little feared "the pitiful, helpless giant" (Richard Nixon's phrase) . When the United States has stayed on after fighti ng dictatorial enemies admittedly for decades in Italy, Germany, Japan , Korea and the Balkans progress toward democracy and prosperity ensue d Disengagement from unresolved messy problems whether from Europe af ter World War I, Vietnam in 1973, Beirut after the Marine barracks bombi ngs, Afghanistan after the Soviet defeat, or Iraq in 1991 only left mu rderous chaos or the "peace" of dictators. Ulysses S Grant 's horrible summer of 1864 almost broke the Union. The surprise of the B ulge cost more American lives than the 1944 drive from the Normandy beac hes. Okinawa was not declared secure until a little more than two months before the Japanese surrender. It was the worst-thought-out campaign of the Pacific and cost about 50,000 American casualties. Sacrifices are judged senseless by factors beyond sheer carnage. While we are, of course, tortured over the American dead of the Civil War, World War I and World War II, we nevertheless find solace that those lost end ed slavery, restored the Union, stopped the kaiser, eliminated Adolf Hit ler and Hideki Tojo, and made possible present-day South Korea. On the other hand, we agonize as often over the much smaller losses of Vi etnam, Beirut or Somalia precisely because we are not sure whether they led to any permanent improvement. Those who evoke Vietnam should think carefully of the entire lesson of th at tragedy. We hear daily how we once foolishly got into that chaos but rarely the lessons on how we got out. This present war is not just about the Sunni Triangle, but whether reform ers of the Arab world will step forward to emulate a fragile democratic Iraq that survives the jihadist counterassault. For the last three decad es, Middle East autocratic regimes either attacked their neighbors or re ached understandings with Islamic terrorists to shift blame for their ow n failures onto an apparently unconcerned United States. That deeper pathology was at the root of the September 11, 2001, attacks on America. If not stopped now, it will result in many more attacks to c ome here at home.