6/30     My wife is a naturalized US citizen who came here from Korea so
         young that she doesn't know the language. Something I hear from her
         frequently though is her conviction that white people (other than an
         enlightened few) think way deep down that only they belong here and
         they think they are being good for "tolerating" her being in the
         US. This usually comes up after some random homeless person or
         deadbeat (usually on or waiting for buses) singles her out for
         slander out of a crowd of non-Asians. So, with the power of the
         quasi-anonymous motd behind you, let's hear it white boys. In your
         heart of hearts, are you just tolerating the brown and yellow
         people? She says she thinks this is a particular problem in Berkeley
         because the high Asian fraction makes them more threatening to white
         people. -- ulysses
         \_ Asian = White to me, as far as I can tell.  But I grew up with
            an adopted chinese sister.  I do have some personal preferences
            that could be considered cultural prejudices (i.e. I hate loud,
            confrontational and overbearing people) but really those
            characteristics are not specific to races, even if there are
            cultural predispositions toward or away from such behaviors.
         \_ Ummm... I would expect anything you glean here would be
            considered from the "enlightened few."  Futhermore, before this
            I mostly heard this about black bums in SF.  I don't think race
            has much to do with the fact that Bums are usually kinda nuts.
            That said, she's probably right about a lot of people, but
            that's hardly an unusual sentiment.  Ask her how she thinks
            other races are treated Korea.
              \_ I suspect she wouldn't really have much of an idea
                 how other races are treated in Korea, since she grew
                 up here and doesn't speak Korean. It's certainly not
                 racist, but there is often the (mis-?)conception among
                 people in the US that people with non-white/black ancestors
                 are more closely connected to the lands of their ancestry.
               \_ That's why I said he should ask what she thinks.  It's a
                  thought problem.  I could've said Japan or China, but I
                  thought Korea at least made a little more sense.
         \_ interesting observations but I think the analysis is all wrong
         \_ I used to feel like your wife does, but then I left the Bay Area
            and met some regular white people (republicans even!) and found
            that mostly they don't care where you (or your parents) are from
            and what color your skin is.
            What I did notice is that most "white" people whose ancestors
           were immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian) are a bit more open
           to Asians (at least Indians) than are other "white" people.
            were quasi-recent immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian, Polish,
            Russian, &c.) are other "white" people.
            \_ This sounds a little like what someone said a few days ago on the
               motd about United Airlines' service.  It turns out that United
               treats everyone like shit, without regard to skin color, and that
               a lot of people in the Bay area tend to seem like assholes,
               regardless of your skin color.  It also seemed to me that a lot
               of people of many many different ethnic backgrounds, including
               white people had a huge chip on their shoulder in the Bay Area.
            \_ Which white people don't have immigrant ancestors?
               \_ I was refering to people who immigrated to the US rather
                  than the colonies.
         \_ My wife is Japanese, and she started living here in the Bay Area
            from 1999. She notes that white people (here and elsewhere in the
            States) have a hard time looking her in the eyes. I thought she was
            imagining it until I started looking for it, and sure enough, most
            whites will direct 90% of their conversation toward me, even though
            she's definitely the more attractive of the two of us. Asians,
            Asian-Americans, and African-Americans seem to pay us equal
            attention. Weird. --erikred
           \_ I'm an Asian man and I'll give you my observations and
              behavioral interpretations. Most of the white men I've met in
              the Bay Area are much nicer than white men from other places.
              I suspect it has something to do with their relatively higher
              education, that they're much more used to seeing yellow faces,
              or that they think I have a cute sister or cute female Asian
              friends. Even a lot of smart white men on motd have a
              preference for Asian women (jrleek, ulysses, ax, erikred, etc).
   \_ I've never stated a preference for Asian women.  I love all
      women.  And how did I become a smart white man?  Most people
      on the motd think I'm a friggan idiot!  Maybe you have me
      confused for someone else?  Thanks for the compliment though.
      My wife is Italian, if it matters.  I find I have some kind of weird
      genetic attraction towards white trash Irish women and Latinas,
      presumably since I am both Irish and Spanish. -ax
              All powers to friendly and tolerant white men in the Bay Area.
                However, I've had a much tougher time with white women in
              general. Although I've met a few friendly ones (heck I even
              went to prom with a white girl), IN GENERAL I find it hard to
              approach them. I can easily demonstrate this phenomenon when my
              white buddies and I go to the mall and we separately try small
              talks with cute blond clerks. You can easily tell that they're
              usually friendlier and more flirty with someone who's more blond
              and/or whiter, and they don't even make any effort to hide it.
              In general I don't have good impressions with white women-- many
              are shallow or bitchy. Maybe this is one of the many reasons why
              smart white men in the Bay Area prefer my kind, I don't know.
                To address the original post, let me just say that I haven't
              really experienced discrimination in my life. However I suspect
              racism still happens a lot in the backdoors of managements,
              especially for jobs that are predominantly white. My parents used
            \_ Preferentialism is everywhere.  That's why there's the Indian
               Mafia, the Persian Highway, the Sisterhood, etc.  If anything,
               white males are *less* obvious about their preferences, though
               Mario and his Italians are the most infamous exception.
               \_ What about Luigi?
                  \_ ^Luigi^Luca.  Mario begot Luca.
              to tell me that when they came to the US in the early 80s (not
              in the Bay Area) to rent and later to buy a house, they'd often
              get ignored or get rude white folks who don't seem to want to
              help them. A lot has changed in the past few decades.
              \_ Well, as a white guy, random white people tend to tell me
               things they wouldn't say outright to people of other races
               because they feel more comfortable. I find that lots of
               white people are racist against blacks and Mexicans (not
               Hispanics, but specifically Mexicans). They tend to think
               that Middle-Eastern, Jewish, and Indian people are weird.
               As for Asians, I have to say I don't hear much about them
               except how they are smart, wealthy, and build big, ugly
               houses. That stereotype is just as offensive to me as if
               they were considered poor and stupid. FWIW, I have had lots
               of people (even Asians themselves) tell me to never work
               for a Korean or a Chinese. Where do Filipinos fit into
               this? I think they get the short end of the stick.
               \_ Are you an Italian?
         \_ Anytime you try to generalize to such a large group as
            "white people" you are going to be off the mark. I am sure
            there are racists everywhere, but my experience is that
            white/asian relations are very good in San Francisco. If
           anything, they are the ones tolarating us, since they
            anything, they are the ones tolerating us, since they
            are in the majority now.
           \_ Hot asian women are always welcome!
            \_ Hot women of any race are welcome.
           \_ Um. I think everybody is racist. Living with other types for
              long enough usually forces people to accept that they're human
              too. Stereotypes remain. I think it's possible to not be racist
              as such but it's easy to resent immigrants because they do
              change the character of the places they come to. In the bay area,
              so many of the Asians are not very Americanized and often have
              traits that I might find annoying. I don't really fit in with
              "standard" American culture either though. When I was in school in
              the bay area, the largest group of people with similar culture
              was the Chinese/TW immigrants. The other kids put together were
              a sizable group but they were of various types. So my
              perception was that of the Asian kids being a bigger group than
              the white kids. When the population is composed of various groups
              that tend to stick together it's halfway like living in a foreign
              country. Not that long ago, the Bay Area character was completely
              different. So obviously this is "threatening" but at least from
              my perspective I don't have a family legacy here and have no real
              basis to complain.