Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 38316
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2005/6/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38316 Activity:moderate
6/27    Agriculture - The Worst Mistake In The History of the Human Race?
        http://www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/agron342/diamondmistake.html
        \_ There are so many hilarious logical flaws in that article I don't
           know where to start.
           \- Helo, this seemed absurd to me too, but I really dont know
              much about anthropology or pre-literate societies. I have
              read a little bit of GGS and some of that stuff seems pretty
              interesting [also well-beyond things I have significant
              understanding of]. On the other hand, I believe much of what
              he says in Collapse seems tenuous. I think there are more
              he says in Collapse seems tenuous. I feel there are more
              compelling explanations rooted in economics. It would be
              like trying to explain prisonner dilemma by "studying the
              criminal mind" instead of the spare axioms of rationality
              or trying to explain tragedy of the commons by sociological
              factors or "first/second image" explanations [in the sense
              of Waltz: Man, the State and War]. I think it would be
              interesting to ask him if he things hunt/gather societies
              could have evolved universities, libraries and other such
              knowledge-oriented institutions and labor specialization.
              I think he's a pretty smart guy, but I wonder if after
              becoming a "public intellectual" he feels obligated to
              come up with big, provocative ideas that are a little beyond
              his core knowledge [the extreme example is when physicists
              win the nobel prize and start talking about world peace].
              I do imagine he would have some rebuttals to your hilarious
              logical [not empirical?] flaws which you failed to know
              where to begin enumerating and leave unstated. ok tnx.
              \- btw, JD is giving a talk in SF in about 2 weeks.
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

You may also be interested in these entries...
2013/6/18-8/13 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:54695 Activity:nil
6/17    Don't mess with Texas:
        http://gawker.com/woman-tells-carjacker-he-picked-wrong-witch-runs-him-513728108
        \_ Kudos.  I just worry that some shameless ambulance-chasing lawyer
           might sue her on behalf of the criminal.
           \_ America has more lawsuits per capita than any other nation.
              Lawyers, rejoice!!!
	...
2012/6/23-7/20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:54421 Activity:nil
6/23    Werher von Braun, Nazi, SS, overseer of Dora slave factory,
        is an American hero because of his contribution to
        Saturn V. What is wrong with America?
        \_ Is this worse or better than Gerald Ford pardoning
           Nixon for FuckYouAmericaGate?
        \_ "Hero" is a strong word. "Useful" would have been a
	...
2009/10/20-11/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:53457 Activity:high
10/20   "Ending death penalty could save US millions: study"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091020/ts_alt_afp/usexecutionjustice
        "...... the cost to the state to reach that one execution is 30
        million dollars"
        I used to be pro death penalty because I thought it's cheaper than
        life without possibility of parole (p.s. especially with the health
	...
2009/5/6-9 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:52959 Activity:nil
5/6     "Wal-Mart pays $2M to avoid charges in death probe"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wal_mart_death
        "Nassau County District Attorney ... said that if she had brought
        criminal charges against the retailer for negligence in the worker's
        death, the company would have been subject to only a $10,000 fine if
        convicted."
	...
2009/4/27-5/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52914 Activity:low
4/27    "Obama the first Asian-American president?"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090427/pl_afp/uspoliticsobama100daysasia
        Just like the way Clinton was the first African-American president.
        \_ Two wars, a banking, housing, and general economic crisis, a truly
           massive deficit, and now, Swine Flu.  Has any president except for
           Lincoln and Roosevelt faced worse?
	...
2009/4/21-28 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:52883 Activity:kinda low
4/20    Anybody know Daniel Andreas San Diego?
        http://csua.org/u/o28
        \_ "Law enforcement officials describe San Diego as a strict vegan
            who possesses a 9mm handgun."
        \_ "On his abdomen, he has images of burning and collapsing buildings."
           Tattoos people, they are called tattoos.
	...
2009/3/23-30 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52745 Activity:nil
3/23    Obama says anger isn't a governing strategy; fair enough. What
        about making people who are owed bonuses creditors of the company
        such that they can collect their bonuses once the government's been
        paid back?
        \_ Obamessiah is very good at making strawmen, like any good politician
           \_ With all due respect, take your politico-bashing and fuck off to
	...
2012/6/1-7/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:54407 Activity:nil
6/1     There is a lot of panic. Euro. Greece. Unemployment. GDP.
        VIX is up. That means one thing: BUY BUY BUY!!!
        \_ Eh, I'm not sure we're at BUY BUY BUY yet.
        \_ Eh, I'm not sure we're at BUY BUY BUY yet.  I think
           things may still go lower from here.  1280 was my target
           before that jobs report.
	...
2012/5/16-7/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:54390 Activity:nil
5/16    Can anyone tell me what Greece is hoping for by rejecting austerity?
        From here it seems like the austerity is a pretty generous attempt
        to keep Greece from imploding entirely.   Are they hoping the
        Germans will put them on eternal state welfare, or what?
        Also, why would an outright default mean they must leave the Euro?
        Is it just that they won't be able to pay basic gvmt services
	...
2012/1/10-2/6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:54286 Activity:nil
1/10    Want financial assistance from the government?  Go to Greece and molest
        a kid!  http://www.csua.org/u/v6j (news.yahoo.com)  (And I don't mean
        the free goodies in jail.)
        \_ That Penn State guy has a future!
	...
2010/5/8-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53823 Activity:nil
5/8     What was up with Greece of all things affecting the market?
        \_ I'm not sure why, but I guess a Greek collapse could screw
           up the Euro as a currency.
	...
2008/10/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51356 Activity:high
10/2    Bank runs in Greece!
        \_ URL?
           \_ google above.  may be just electronic, since there are no photos
              \_ The top hits are "ronpaulforums" and "usagold". Sorry, this
                 does not qualify as anything but a rumor at this point.
                 \_ try clicking the "News" link padawan
	...
2007/6/20-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:47024 Activity:very high
6/20    Clint Eastwood's twin Iwo Jima movies triggered island name change.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima
        \_ Of course, the proper romanji is "ioutou" or "ioujima."  Can't
           they get anything right?
        \_ more like they are reverting it to original name, and Iwo Jima
           was just a mistaken name brought about in WWII that stuck.
	...
2007/2/3-6 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45646 Activity:nil
2/3     Ancient Greek religion makes a comeback in Greece:
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329702212-103680,00.html
	...
2006/7/24-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43771 Activity:low
7/24    I got a problem and I need you guys' advice on how to help without
        myself being locked up in Cuba somewhere. Hezbollah runs a lot of
        hospitals, bomb shelterss and other Humanitarian organization.
        Right now, there are about 600,000 accused terrorist being displaced
        by Israeli forces.  200,000 of them are already fled to Syria, which
        is not a wealthy nation at first place and its subject to US economic
	...
2006/6/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43331 Activity:kinda low
6/8     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13202682
        Indigenous Hawaiian bill falls short in Senate. You whities may
        have won this time, but we will keep trying. Time is on our side.
        \_ Just curious, are there examples in history where a dominant
           race uses military mights to crush all the inferior natives, and
           the natives worship the dominant culture instead of hating them?
	...
Cache (8192 bytes)
www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/agron342/diamondmistake.html
Discover Magazine, May 1987 Pages 64-66 Illustrations by Elliott Danfield To science we owe dramatic changes in our smug self-image. Astronomy tau ght us that our earth isnt the center of the universe but merely one o f billions of heavenly bodies. From biology we learned that we werent specially created by God but evolved along with millions of other speci es. Now archaeology is demolishing another sacred belief: that human hi story over the past million years has been a long tale of progress. In particular, recent discoveries suggest that the adoption of agriculture , supposedly our most decisive step toward a better life, was in many w ays a catastrophe from which we have never recovered. With agriculture came the gross social and sexual inequality, the disease and despotism, that curse our existence. At first, the evidence against this revisionist interpretation will stri ke twentieth century Americans as irrefutable. Were better off in almo st every respect than people of the Middle Ages, who in turn had it eas ier than cavemen, who in turn were better off than apes. We enjoy the most abundant and varied foods, the best tool s and material goods, some of the longest and healthiest lives, in hist ory. We get our ener gy from oil and machines, not from our sweat. What neo-Luddite among us would trade his life for that of a medieval peasant, a caveman, or an ape? For most of our history we supported ourselves by hunting and gathering: we hunted wild animals and foraged for wild plants. Its a life that p hilosophers have traditionally regarded as nasty, brutish, and short. S ince no food is grown and little is stored, there is (in this view) no respite from the struggle that starts anew each day to find wild foods and avoid starving. Our escape from this misery was facilitated only 10 ,000 years ago, when in different parts of the world people began to do mesticate plants and animals. The agricultural revolution spread until today its nearly universal and few tribes of hunter-gatherers survive. From the progressivist perspective on which I was brought up, to ask "Wh y did almost all our hunter-gatherer ancestors adopt agriculture?" Of course they adopted it because agriculture is an efficient way to get more food for less work. Planted crops yield far more tons per acre than roots and berries. Just imagine a band of savages, exhausted from searching for nuts or chasing wild animals, suddenly grazing for t he first time at a fruit-laden orchard or a pasture full of sheep. How many milliseconds do you think it would take them to appreciate the adv antages of agriculture? The progressivist party line sometimes even goes so far as to credit agr iculture with the remarkable flowering of art that has taken place over the past few thousand years. Since crops can be stored, and since it t akes less time to pick food from a garden than to find it in the wild, agriculture gave us free time that hunter-gatherers never had. Thus it was agriculture that enabled us to build the Parthenon and compose the B-minor Mass. While the case for the progressivist view seems overwhelming, its hard to prove. How do you show that the lives of people 10,000 years ago got better when they abandoned hunting and gathering for farming? Until re cently, archaeologists had to resort to indirect tests, whose results ( surprisingly) failed to support the progressivist view. Heres one exam ple of an indirect test: Are twentieth century hunter-gatherers really worse off than farmers? Scattered throughout the world, several dozen g roups of so-called primitive people, like the Kalahari bushmen, continu e to support themselves that way. It turns out that these people have p lenty of leisure time, sleep a good deal, and work less hard than their farming neighbors. For instance, the average time devoted each week to obtaining food is only 12 to 19 hours for one group of Bushmen, 14 hou rs or less for the Hadza nomads of Tanzania. One Bushman, when asked wh y he hadnt emulated neighboring tribes by adopting agriculture, replie d, "Why should we, when there are so many mongongo nuts in the world?" While farmers concentrate on high-carbohydrate crops like rice and potat oes, the mix of wild plants and animals in the diets of surviving hunte r-gatherers provides more protein and a bettter balance of other nutrie nts. In one study, the Bushmens average daily food intake (during a mo nth when food was plentiful) was 2,140 calories and 93 grams of protein , considerably greater than the recommended daily allowance for people of their size. Its almost inconceivable that Bushmen, who eat 75 or so wild plants, could die of starvation the way hundreds of thousands of Irish farmers and their families did during the potato famine of the 18 40s. So the lives of at least the surviving hunter-gatherers arent nasty and brutish, even though farmes have pushed them into some of the worlds worst real estate. But modern hunter-gatherer societies that have rubbe d shoulders with farming societies for thousands of years dont tell us about conditions before the agricultural revolution. The progressivist view is really making a claim about the distant past: that the lives o f primitive people improved when they switched from gathering to farmin g Archaeologists can date that switch by distinguishing remains of wil d plants and animals from those of domesticated ones in prehistoric gar bage dumps. How can one deduce the health of the prehistoric garbage makers, and the reby directly test the progressivist view? That question has become ans werable only in recent years, in part through the newly emerging techni ques of paleopathology, the study of signs of disease in the remains of ancient peoples. In some lucky situations, the paleopathologist has almost as much materi al to study as a pathologist today. For example, archaeologists in the Chilean deserts found well preserved mummies whose medical conditions a t time of death could be determined by autopsy (Discover, October). And feces of long-dead Indians who lived in dry caves in Nevada remain suf ficiently well preserved to be examined for hookworm and other parasite s Usually the only human remains available for study are skeletons, but th ey permit a surprising number of deductions. To begin with, a skeleton reveals its owners sex, weight, and approximate age. In the few cases where there are many skeletons, one can construct mortality tables like the ones life insurance companies use to calculate expected life span and risk of death at any given age. Paleopathologists can also calculat e growth rates by measuring bones of people of different ages, examine teeth for enamel defects (signs of childhood malnutrition), and recogni ze scars left on bones by anemia, tuberculosis, leprosy, and other dise ases. One straight forward example of what paleopathologists have learned from skeletons concerns historical changes in height. Skeletons from Greece and Turkey show that the average height of hunger-gatherers toward the end of the ice ages was a generous 5 9" for men, 5 5" for women. Wit h the adoption of agriculture, height crashed, and by 3000 B C had re ached a low of only 5 3" for men, 5 for women. By classical times hei ghts were very slowly on the rise again, but modern Greeks and Turks ha ve still not regained the average height of their distant ancestors. Another example of paleopathology at work is the study of Indian skeleto ns from burial mounds in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys. At Dickso n Mounds, located near the confluence of the Spoon and Illinois rivers, archaeologists have excavated some 800 skeletons that paint a picture of the health changes that occurred when a hunter-gatherer culture gave way to intensive maize farming around A D 1150. Studies by George Ar melagos and his colleagues then at the University of Massachusetts show these early farmers paid a price for their new-found livelihood. Compa red to the hunter-gatherers who preceded them, the farmers had a nearly 50 per cent increase in enamel defects indicative of malnutrition, a f ourfold increase in iron-deficiency anemia (evidenced bya bone conditio n called porotic...