Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 38060
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2005/6/9-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health] UID:38060 Activity:low
6/9     Sez the Canadian Supreme Court:  "delays in the [Quebec] public health
        care system are widespread and that in some serious cases, patients
        die as a result of waiting lists for public health care."
        http://csua.org/u/cb5 [nytimes]
        \_ Meanwhile, 40 million plus Americans have no health insurance of
           any kind.  And god help if you have a preexisting condition and
           become unemployed.
           \_ This fictional 40 million number.... why should the govt
              pay for health insurance for people who rather buy
              new cars and flat screen plasma TVs?  The number of people
              who could not afford health ins., should they actually
              choose to buy it, is very small.  Futhermore, by law no
              one is denied care at a hospital emergency room and
              socialized health care programs already exist.
              \_ I don't know if this is trolling or naivete. "Could not
                 afford" is, perhaps, a subjective term, but data I've seen
                 from at least Mendocino, Sonoma, Lake and Napa counties
                 indicate populations well into the thousands who cannot
                 afford heath insurance and are under-served by the local
                 publicly available health care options. Not to mention that
                 in those counties, as well as in Santa Cruz county,
                 facilities that serve primarily Medicare and Medical patients
                 are closing. "By law" is one thing but have you heard of a
                 "code red" condition? That means the ER at a hospital won't
                 accept any new comers. That said, I don't think any of the
                 folks I'm refering to would be buying new cars or flat
                 screen TVs either. -- ulysses
                 \_ so you know personally know 40 million people without
                    insurance?  "really can't afford health care" can denot
                    alot of categories.  As a graduate student making 30k a
                    year I could afford catastrophic health care or,
                    if need be, go on a government program, as we already
                    have Fed and state programs for people who cannot
                    afford health care.  Let me ask you this - would you
                    agree to tax cuts so people could pay for their health
                    care, or do these people you seem to know not work
                    anyways?
                    \_ The populations to whom I'm referring make typically less
                       than $10,000 a year. Cutting their taxes would still not
                       give them enough money to afford health care. Sample
                       occupations include homecare workers, gardeners,
                       (non-union) custodians. There are many more but those
                       are on the top of my head. These are people typically
                       within two or three multiples of the federal poverty
                       line. You are certainly correct that you, as a graduate
                       student, have more options. The Fed and state programs
                       to which you refer (Medical? Medicare?) only work if
                       there are facilities around to take patients. This is
                       getting lengthy and narrow for the motd so I invite you
                       to sign your login or email me. -- ulysses
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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Cache (3499 bytes)
csua.org/u/cb5 -> www.nytimes.com/2005/06/09/international/americas/09cnd-canada.html?hp&ex=1118376000&en=0b16373d15ab0917&ei=5094&partner=homepage
CLIFFORD KRAUSS Published: June 9, 2005 TORONTO, June 9 - The Canadian Supreme Court struck down a Quebec law ban ning private medical insurance today, dealing an acute blow to the publi cly financed national health care system. The court stopped short of striking down the constitutionality of the cou ntry's vaunted nationwide coverage, but legal experts said the ruling wo uld open the door to a wave of lawsuits challenging the health care syst em in other provinces. The system, providing Canadians with free doctor's services that are paid for by taxes, has generally been supported by the public, and is broadl y identified with the Canadian national character. But in recent years, patients have been forced to wait longer for diagnos tic tests and elective surgery, while the wealthy and well connected eit her seek care in the United States or use influence to jump ahead on wai ting lists. The court ruled that the waiting lists had become so long that they viola ted patients' "liberty, safety and security" under the Quebec charter, w hich covers about one-quarter of Canada's population. "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care sy stem are widespread and that in some serious cases, patients die as a re sult of waiting lists for public health care," the Supreme Court ruled. "In sum, the prohibition on obtaining private health insurance is not co nstitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable service s" The case was brought to the Supreme Court by a Montreal family doctor, Ja cques Chaoulli, who argued his own case through the courts, and by a che mical salesman, George Zeliotis, who was forced to wait a year for a hip replacement while being prohibited from paying privately for surgery. Chaoulli and Mr Zeliotis lost in two Quebec provincial courts before the Supreme Court took their appeal. Chaoulli declared a victory and predicted that the decision would eventually apply to all of Canada. "How could you ima gine that Quebeckers may live," he asked, "and the English Canadian has to die?" Chaoulli, who was born in France, has long called for Canada to adopt a two-tier, public-private health care system similar to those of Franc e, Germany and Switzerland. Supporters of the current system, however, h ave argued that a two-tier plan will draw physicians away from the publi c system, which is already short of doctors, thus further lengthening wa iting lists. Chaoulli is a passionate if idiosyncratic advocate who has long been viewed as a lonely character on the political scene. In 1997, he went on a hunger strike for his cause in the streets of Montreal, after he was forced to abandon a private emergency house-call service. The doctor also went to the University of Montreal law school to help him make his case, but flunked out after a semester. Canada's prime minister, Paul Martin, responded to the court's decision b y saying that his government would commit to lessening waiting times for medical services while preserving the system. "We are not going to have a two-tier health care system in this country," Mr Martin told reporters. What we want to do is to strengthen the public health care system." But legal scholars and health care experts predicted a slew of lawsuits c hallenging provincial health care laws across the country. "This is indeed a historic ruling that could substantially change the ver y foundations of Medicare as we know it," the president of the Canadian Medical Association, Dr.