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| 5/18 |
| 2005/6/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:37972 Activity:high |
6/4 Regarding yesterday's racist remark on how wealthy and smart Jewish
people are, I will reiterate again that it is just my opinion, as a
non-Jew, that they are one of the wisest and sensible people in the
world. In fact, I think United States would be much better if the
government is run by Jews. That is because Jews are more likely to
use diplomacy rather than Shock & Awe, Bolton bullying, and
intimidation. They're also more likely to have earned their college
degrees without their daddy's influence. Most of them think clearly
and thus don't have speech impediments. Most of them are modest,
unlike people who say they've made no mistakes. They're also sensible
and are less likely to divise people into two camps-- one for you,
one against you. Lastly, Jews are less likely to impose their
Religious beliefs such as pro-life/pro-choice on you. Since they
know what it is like to be suppressed by the other race, they have
a lot of understanding and compassion for people who are different,
be it people with alternative and diverse lifestyles, or just
minorities in general. I hope one day, they take over our Red Neck
White Trash Christian Nation and make United States better for
Americans and less of a threat to everyone else. Shalom, and
Bless Jews. -Troller. Not a Jew, But Worship Them
\_ I'm stunned that no one else has yet said this is the most racist
drivel the motd has seen in quite a while. Please tell us that
when you signed as "Troller." you were telling us flat out that
this racist diatribe really is a troll and we weren't all supposed
to respond seriously like everyone below has done.
\_ I don't know if I would call the below responses "serious."
A few were tounge-in-cheek, and most were on a different,
although related, subject.
\_ Average IQ in Israel is actually pretty low:
http://www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm (IQ and the Wealth of Nations)
\_ its probably just being dragged down by them dirty palestinians
\_ Man, you should post this on the MSA website.
\-1. as with the sikhs, i think people assume there are more of
then then there are. small populations have have higher
variances from the mean than large ones.
2. there are some big selection factors, as well, looking at
an immigrant group. for example if you judge indians you
meet here a lot of them seem reasonably intelligent ... you
dont meet a lot of indians who couldnt tell you what 15% of
100 is. but it turns out if you go to india, you discover
there are a lot of dumb indians. similarly whatever you say
about jews here, the population metrics are likely to be pretty
different when you are talking about israelis. having met a
large number of israelis while traveling, they are the biggest
assholes [followed probably by indians ... this is actually
sort of interesting and there are some statistical explanations
but i'll leave it at that].
\_ If an American Jew is a fanatical asshole about religion,
they typically will want to go to Israel as much as
possible and will often move there and become citizens.
The town I'm from (in the U.S.) had a lot of these people.
When a Christian decides to be a fundamentallist asshole,
they do it right here, but among jews there's a filter that
tends to send the extremists to Israel and keep the more
decent folk here.
\_ I find Chinese to be greater assholes while traveling
abroad than Indians, but only marginally so. What is it
about the eastern mind that makes people inconsiderate
jerks?
\_ Nothing--just that some cultures bring out the fact that
people are assholes more than others through learned
traits (so, assuming you get the same % of assholes per
culture, your Englishman will seem treacherous and
passive-aggressive, French=arrogant, German=loud &
boorish, American=loud & obnoxious, Russian=pushy,
Chinese=rude & self-centered, etc.) -John
\_ Just a thought, but perhaps all these people who have
immigrated to the US have adapted to our social norms,
whereas when you are traveling abroad, you have probably
not adapted to their social norms.
\_ I'm often told that people in X country
are racist and don't like foreigners by
Chinese and Indians, but the problem
that I have with this is that I often
notice the same Chinese and Indians
tourists acting like complete jerks when
they are abroad.
I don't know who many times I've had to
stand in line behind some Chinese or
Indian having it out with the hotel staff
or a ticket agent over something trivial.
(It is worse when I have to stand behind
and Indian b/c I'm invariably viewed w/
distrust and am stuck apologizing for
the rude behavior).
I almost never see non-asian tourists do
things like take photos where they are
not permitted, walk accross lawns &c.
that are being repaired, spitting in
inappropriate places, yelling, &c.
Perhaps I am not in tune w/ their culture
but any culture that breeds disrespect
for your fellow man (esp. when you are a
guest in their country) is on that I don't
want to be in tune w/.
\- once again, a partial answer:
\- once again, i think i have a partial answer:
a lot of the indians going to a place like the
middle east are "lower class" persons, like
people with domestic or labor jobs. lower
class americans ... the type that chew and
spit tobacco dont leave the country. you go
to a mcdonalds in oakland and you see some
pretty amazing behavior.
note also that in some countries retail
establishments are mostly small proprietorships
and this means 1. you can bargain about prices
[and there are rude and non-rude ways of doing
this] 2. there are usually not hassle-free
returns, so sometimes you have to be a little
nasty ... and when it comes to small things,
it a matter of not being the bitch than the
money.
\- in the case of some indians, these are the servant-
owning class, so often they will treat people like
their mountaineering guides as their servants,
like "hey bring me my cigarettes". they are also
cheep [as are israelis and chinese]. it's one thing
to say "oh may be they dont think it is rude to
chew loudly" but it's not reasonable to say "in their
culture it is perfectly reasonable to yell across
the hotel atrium to your friends at 2am". a lot of
the chinese people i meet travelling in the backwaters
of asia are travelling solo and people [including
israelis] are less jerk-like solo. part of the
biasing factor in the israeli case is they are often
younger people who are looking to party on the cheap.
you cant relly compare a post-college american who
goes to france to see some culture and a dutch
teen ager who heads down to paris to carouse.
cheep [as are israelis and chinese]. [these are why
usually i am one of the two chiefs of labor nego-
tiations with the climbing staff: i look after them
more and i am a better tipper]. re: social norms:
it's one thing to say "oh maybe they dont think it
is rude to chew loudly" but it's not reasonable to
say "in their culture it is perfectly reasonable to
yell across the hotel atrium to your friends at
2am". a lot of the chinese people i meet travelling
in the backwaters of asia are travelling solo and
people [including israelis] are less jerk-like
solo. part of the biasing factor in the israeli case
is they are often younger people who are looking to
party on the cheap. you cant relly compare a
post-college american who goes to france to see some
culture and a dutch teen ager who heads down to paris
to carouse.
\_ I live in an apartment building full of white
frat boys who consider it acceptable to yell
across the courtyard to their friends at 2am.
My German upstairs neighbors have ear-shattering
parties at 4am sometimes. Are those cultural too?
-- ilyas
\- i'm talking about quite specific contexts.
like austriains in bali are likely to be
loud partiers. australians you meet crossing
the thorung la pass arent likely to be loud
and obnoxious ... nit that week anyway.
and there are some valid generalization and
they have explanations beyond "people from X
are just that way" ... like the servant class
example.
\_ It is not cultural that Cantonese speakers talk
louder than Mandarin speakers. It is a fact well
accepted by most Chinese. As for parties at 4AM,
that's a tough one. Maybe your German friends
learned it from Caucasian frat boys, who knows.
Speaking of Caucasian frat boys, I also hear
them yelling and breaking beer glass bottles
till 3AM 1/2 mile from Gayley. Fucking annoying
jocks. Definitely Caucasian frat cultural.
jocks. Definitely Caucasian frat cultural. Also,
definitely more of a UCLA thing than a Cal thing
\- Harbhajan Singh, On what he was discussing
with Younis Khan: Oh, it wasn't a heated
conversation. But you know, we were
speaking in Punjabi, and Punjabi is such a
language that even when you have a normal
conversatiion in it, it sounds heated.
\_ I've seen many drunk, stupid frat boys
pissing behind dumpsters and on street
corners in my years of living near college
campuses. I would like to point out however
that the *only* time I've seen a drunk
stupid frat boy atually pissing *on* the
porch of his own frat house was at the Yale
DKE house. Future presidents indeed.
\_ Re Germans, I used to work w/ a German guy and
he was always surprised when the neighbors
complained about his loud late night parties.
Apparently in Berlin the action doesn't start
until after midnight at the earliest.
\_ Zese are ze irresponsible chermans. Se real
Chermans are up at 6 in ze mornink, varmink
up ze panzers for ze little hangover trip to
POLAND, ha ha! -John
Re Frat Boys, They are just obnoxious youth,
which are found EVERYWHERE. In Dublin almost
all of the late night party/noise was from
kids getting drunk at pubs.
\_ I don't know any world leader who have all the combined attributes
of not prefering diplomacy, have a speech impediment, is not modest,
AND imposes his/her belief on you. To whom are you refering to??? |
| 5/18 |
|
| www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm Qatar 78 $ 20,987 Middle Eastern Romania $ 5,648 94 1 1 94 1972 300 6 to 10 CPM 95 -1 UK 1979 Z ahirnic 1974 Norms Romania 94 $ 5,648 European Russia $ 6,460 96 1 1 96 1997 14 to 15 SPM 100 -4 UK 1979 Raven 1998 Norms, city of Briansk, 200 miles SW of Moscow Russia 96 $ 6,460 E uropean Sierra Leone $ 458 64 2 1 64 1965 22 23 CPM 64 US 1993 Bi nnie-Dawson 1984 Tiny sample; Tests: Goddard Formboard, Porteus Maze, Alexander Passalong, and Draw-a-Man, date of standardizations of first t hree unknown; Sudan 72 $ 1,394 Black Suriname (in Netherlands) $ 5,161 89 1 1 89 1995 535 mean age 30 DGATB 89 Te Nijenhuis 1997 Immigrants in Netherlands, Dutch General A ptitude Test Battery-relative to Dutch=100 Suriname 89 0 $ 5,161 Mulatto Sweden $ 20,659 101 2 1 97 1968 1,106 6 to 15 WISC 104 -7 -2 2 US 1947 Skandinaviska 1970 Standardization. United Kingdom 100 $ 20,336 European United States $ 29,605 98 4 1 100 1914 Stanford Binet 100 5 -3 -2 Scotl and 1933 Lynn 1979 Stanford Binet standardized on whites only so 2 point s too high; From these studies, it is possible to calculate the mean Iqs of the popu lations of 81 nations. In making these calculations, the mean IQ in Britain is set at 100 with a standard devia tion of 15 and the mean Iqs of other nations is calculated in relation to this yardstick. A factor that needs to be taken into account in making these calculation s This adjustment is noted in the column entitled "Flynn Effect," althoug h "Lynn-Flynn Effect" might be more correct -- Sailer is that the mean Iqs in economically developed nations have been increas ing since the 1930s. An adjustment needs to be made for this increase when calculating the mean Iqs obtained in countri es from tests that were administered some years before or some years later than the British test with which it is being compared. Standard Progressive Matrices test, which ha s been administered in many countries and which we use extensively for the calculation of national I qs, the British mean IQ increased at a rate of approximately 2 IQ points per decade from 1938, when the test was constr ucted, up to 1979, when the last British standardization on children was carried out (Lynn and H ampson, 1986, Flynn, 1987). increased by approximately 3 IQ po ints per decade from the mid-1930s to the 1990s (Flynn, 1984, 1988). Where these tests have been used, adju stments for the secular rise of Iqs have been made. There are a few studies that have employed tests for which the rate of s ecular increase in the means is not known. In these cases, we have assumed an increase of 2 IQ points per decade. When the date at which a standardization was carried out is not given, i t is assumed to have taken place two years before the date of publication. A problem in estimating some national Iqs is that the samples have score d below the first percentile in relation to British norms. Whe re national samples have scored below the first percentile, they have been assigned an IQ of 64. For a number of countries there is more than one study of the national I Q In these case, we have averaged the results giving equal weight to each study. These Iqs have been calculate d and averaged to the nearest whole number. Sailer's Explanation of Column Headings Real GDP per cap is 1998 real Gross Domestic Product per capita in Pur chasing Power Parity terms. It is taken from Table 4 in Appendix 2 of IQ and the Wealth of Nations, pp. Country is of course the Country (occasionally, scores of immigrants in other countries are included as noted) Book Score Book Score is the average of all the mean IQ scores for that country i n the book IQ and the Wealth of Nations # of Studies is the number of studies for each country reported by Lyn n and Vanhanen. All the rest of the columns refer to individual studies Adjusted Score is the mean IQ score of that study, after L&V's adjustm ents to make them compatible. Sample Size are the number of individuals tested Age is the age range of the tested individuals Approx. When the p ublished study does not mention the year, it is assumed to be two years before the study was published. The first time an abbreviation i s introduced, it is explained in the Notes column Reported Score is the mean score reported in study, before L&V's adjus tments There are three columns of Adjustments: Flynn Effect is the adjustment to take into account that raw scores ha ve been rising 2-3 points per decade. Because of this, when tests are restandardized, the developers make it h arder to score a 100. Say that a sample scored an average of 98 in the year 1969 based on the Standard Progressive Matrices benchmarks for the UK for 1979. Because SPM scores have been seen to ris e about 2 points per decade, L&V add 2 points to the Reported Score to give an adjusted score of 100. On the other hand, if the sample scored a 98 on the 1979 benchmarks in t he year 1989, L&V subtract 2 points from the Reported Score to give an adjusted score of 96. Brits = 100 is the adjustment made to scores achieved on tests standar dized with some other country's mean IQ as 100. Many IQ tests were invented in the US and set with the US mea n equal to 100. However, the US mean is typically two or sometimes one point lower than the UK mean. Other is a catch-all for other adjustments made by L&V, which are usua lly sketched out in the Notes column. Then come to "Compared To:" columns about where and when the test was st andardized. Country is the country where the test scores were standardized: typicall y the UK or US. Test Standardized is the year the test was standardized in its benchma rk country (typically, UK or US). This year is used in calculating the size of the Flynn Effect. Author is the name of the first author of the study, and the year publ ished, as reported in L&V's bibliography, pp. Notes explain the full name of the IQ test, Other adjustments, pertine nt demographic information, and offer Sailer's questions and suggestions for improvement. Sorting Columns Columns on the far right of the spreadsheet exist for your convenience in sorting. Country-Study provides the country for each individual study. Overall Score is the same as Book Score (which is L&V's overall score f or a country, based on the average of the studies), but, unlike Book Sco re, it is filled in for each study for convenience in sorting. Differential is the difference between the Adjusted Score for that stud y and the Book Score for that Country. This provides a measure of the size of the dispersion of the study scores that go into making up the averaged Book Score. GDP is the same as the Real GDP Per Cap, just filled in for each row fo r ease in sorting. Diff from Avg Year is the difference between the Approx. Racial Group is a quick and dirty categorization of each country, or, i n cases where an average score was reported for a subgroup, as in South Africa, for that ethnic group. |