Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 37894
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2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2005/5/31-6/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37894 Activity:moderate
5/30    http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.amnestyintl/index.html
        Who has more credibility, Amnesty International or Cheney? Also do
        you believe in Cheney's prediction that fighting would be over
        before the next administration?
        \_ Yeah A.I. is totally right. Comparing abuses of prisoners
           in Cuba to the Soviet Gulags where 16 million died.
           \_ False argumentation.  Cheney:  "our abuses aren't so bad, and
              we've done a bunch of good things, and human rights violators
              are entirely bad, so because we're not quite that bad, we're
              not human rights violators."  Righteous indignation, indeed.  As
              for gulags, it's a poorly chosen figure of speech.  Just like
              "concentration camps"--invented by the British, remember?  -John
              \_ but  we just have queer makeover camps
        \_ AI has it right -- the bar is much higher for the U.S. (a little
           abuse goes a long way), so the comparison is fair.
           Cheney may be viewed as being more arrogant than combative,
           Cheney may be viewed as being more arrogant more than combative,
           and is also practicing defining reality.
           \_ I wish you could grow up in a 3rd world country to see
              what a little goes a long way really means.
              \_ This is awesome. That the US is not as bad as a 3rd country
                 is hardly a defence. Are there any other 1st world
              \_ This is awesome. That the US is not as bad as a 3rd world
                 country is hardly a defence. Are there any other 1st world
                 countries that hold people indefinitely without a trial
                 and torture them for information?
              \_ There is a hell of a lot of torture that goes on in
                 American prisions, too, mostly in the form of prisoner
                 on prisoner rape. This oftens leads to HIV, too. The
                 authorities could stop this, but choose not to.
                 authorities could stop this, but choose not too.
           \_ "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an
               empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
        \_ "our abuses aren't so bad" -- what kind of talk is that from
           the "leader of the free world".  Sounds kinda like this guy:
        General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't
        get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million
        killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

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www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.amnestyintl/index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday he was offende d by Amnesty International's condemnation of the United States for what it called "serious human rights violations" at Guantanamo Bay. "For Amnesty International to suggest that somehow the United States is a violator of human rights, I frankly just don't take them seriously," he said in an interview that aired Monday night on CNN's "Larry King Live. " Amnesty International was scathing last week in its criticism of the way the United States has run the detention center at its naval base in Guan tanamo Bay, Cuba. "We have documented that the US government is a leading purveyor and pr actitioner of the odious human rights violation," William Schulz, execut ive director of Amnesty International USA, said Wednesday. On its Web site, the London, England-based human rights group says: "As e vidence of torture and widespread cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment mounts, it is more urgent than ever that the US government bring the Guantanamo Bay detention camp and any other facilities it is operating o utside the USA into full compliance with international law and standards . The vice president said the United States has freed millions of people fr om oppression. "I think the fact of the matter is, the United States has done more to ad vance the cause of freedom, has liberated more people from tyranny over the course of the 20th century and up to the present day than any other nation in the history of the world," he said. "Just in this administration, we've liberated 50 million people from the Taliban in Afghanistan and from Saddam Hussein in Iraq, two terribly rep ressive regimes that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of their own peop le." Cheney denied American wrongdoing at the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, which Amnesty International compared to a "gulag." "Guantanamo's been operated, I think, in a very sane and sound fashion by the US military. I think these people have been well treated, tre ated humanely and decently," Cheney said. "But if you trace those back, in nearly every case, it turns out to come from somebody who has been inside and been released ... to their home co untry and now are peddling lies about how they were treated." Schulz responded to Cheney's comments: "It doesn't matter whether he take s Amnesty International seriously. "And that is more important than whether he takes Amnesty International s eriously." On Thursday, the commander of the Guantanamo Bay detention center said an investigation had identified five incidents in which the Quran appears to have been mishandled by his personnel. Jay Hood said he has found "no credible evidence" that per sonnel at the military prison flushed a Quran in a toilet. Full sto ry) On the issue of Iraq, Cheney told King that he believes the insurgency th ere is "in the last throes." He also predicted the fighting would end be fore the Bush administration leaves office.