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| 5/20 |
| 2005/5/19 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:37757 Activity:moderate |
5/19 David Brooks, moderate conservative of the NY Times, on Newsweek
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/opinion/19brooks.html?hp
\_ Thank you.
\_ David Brooks is an intellectually dishonest man.
\_ Examples?
\_ He's a master of the false dichotomy. A canonical example:
"Before we get lost in the policy details, let's be clear
about what this Social Security reform debate is really about.
It's about the market. People who instinctively trust the
markets support the Bush reform ideas, and people who are
suspicious oppose them."
http://csua.org/u/c4d (nytimes.com, although you may have to
pay to read this content now)
\_ I thought he was being pretty reasonable while honest
about having a subjective point of view. -John
\_ I don't know about false dichotomy or being
"intellectually dishonest", but here he is definitely
demonstrating his mastery of being vague to the point of
being useless.
His thoughts on Newsweek, however, ring true.
\_ Well, if you talk to a lot of people with different
backgrounds you'll find that this statement is true.
Some people don't trust the market and want a safety
net.
\_ My FIL is retiring soon with over $1 million because of
the market. His SS returns are worthless by comparison.
How long should we fund irrational people?
\_ The Nikkei first hit 11,000 in May 1984.
It's at 11,000 today, which means it has lost a
significant amount of value in real terms. There is
no reason that couldn't happen to U.S. markets. -tom
\_ What if it did?
\_ It never has over the long term. Pick any 20 year
term of the Dow.
\_ "It never has" doesn't mean "it never will."
There's nothing magical about the Dow that
insulates it from stagnation or decline.
How do you think the U.S. economy will do
in a world economy of oil scarcity? (Hint:
not well). It is entirely possible that
we have already seen the peak of the U.S.
stock market. -tom
\_ In a world economy of oil scarcity I
think the US has a leg up on
competitors who are just entering a
stage in which they require increasing oil.
Countries like the US and Japan are
already addressing alternatives. What will
less technologically developed nations do?
\_ The US consumes more oil per capita
than any other nation on the planet.
In any case, the point is that the
fact that the US economy did well
during the 70-100 year reign of the
oil economy does not have any predictive
value for whether it will continue to
do well when the oil economy is gone.
It might, and it might not. It's
certainly not something you can trust.
-tom
\_ And if he had gotten injured at 40, he would be
broke and the only thing keeping him from penury
would be Social Security.
\_ I think that Social Security as retirement
should be distinct from Social Security as a
form of welfare.
\_ Since no one has so far come up with a
proposal to do that, you are just spitting
into the wind. I have no idea if it is
even economically feasable.
\_ Isn't this essentially what Bush is
proposing? Some of the money stays in
the system as a 'safety net' and some
leaves in the form of retirement accounts.
\_ No. Bush has never proposed putting
the disability insurance part of
Social Security into a seperate
program.
\_ He hasn't, but isn't that
essentially what he's doing by
privatizing part of it - separating
out the the retirement accounts?
\_ Please find URL where Dubya talks
specifically about what happens
to disability benefits in his
personal accounts plan.
to disability + veterans benefits
in his personal accounts plan.
\_ You are being obtuse. Does
the phrase "essentially"
mean anything to you? When the
money is diverted to retirement
accounts and out of disability
(for instance) then you are
essentially creating two
different plans: one for
retirement and another for
disability. If you read the
literature you will see
statements like:
"Diverting money out of the Social Security system into individual investment
accounts could require substantial reductions in survivor and disability
benefits. Since revenues diverted from the Social Security Trust Fund would no
longer be available to pay guaranteed benefits, those benefits might have to
be reduced significantly. This is a critical issue that has been largely
ignored by proponents of individual investment accounts."
\_ Please find the URL where /Dubya/ talks specifically about what happens to
/disability benefits/ in his /personal accounts plan/.
Or, you can refuse to answer the request and continue to stay with the
opinion that I am "being obtuse".
\_ That is sort of the point. He ignores the problem.
\_ If the URL exists then you find it. If it does not, then what the
heck is your point? By privatizing retirement then he is by
necessity splitting retirement from disability, unless there are
also privately funded disability accounts, which is not possible
as how could someone not able to work fund their account???
http://www.ohiosilc.org/news/2005/050216_harkin_soc_security.html
"President Bush says that he has no current plans to cut disability
benefits. And I hope that remains the case. Unfortunately, the
president's Social Security privatization plan leaves a lot of
questions as to how people with disabilities will be treated,"
Harkin said. "We have no details from the president, and I am deeply
concerned that he has not thought this through."
\_ Thanks for the URL. At least we have a Senator saying that Dubya
"has no current plans" to cut disability benefits in his new plan.
Data points are useful. Maybe someday we will have more data:
a URL where Dubya says what the Senator thinks he said. |
| 5/20 |
|
| www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/opinion/19brooks.html?hp Help OP-ED COLUMNIST Bashing Newsweek By DAVID BROOKS Published: May 19, 2005 And forgetting the real enemy. |
| csua.org/u/c4d -> query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70611F93A550C728DDDAB0994DC404482 By DAVID BROOKS (NYT) Op-Ed 774 words Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 19 , Column 6 DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 774 WORDS - Before we get lost in the policy detai ls, let's be clear about what this Social Security reform debate is real ly about. People who instinctively trust the mark ets support the Bush reform ideas, and people who are suspicious oppose them. Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. To read the complete article, simply click on one of the BUY NOW buttons below. You can buy this single article or, for even greater value, you can purch ase this article as part of a multi-pack. You'll then have the opportuni ty to buy additional articles now or in the future at significant saving s! Article Archive: 1996-Present multi-packs are not valid for use with Arti cle Archive: 1851-1995 multi-packs and vice versa. How multi-packs work: A multi-pack is an archive package that saves you m oney by allowing you to pre-purchase a set number of articles in bulk at a reduced price. You can then debit from your multi-pack and quickly ac cess articles from the archive at your convenience over the lifetime of the multi-pack. Please Note: Article Archive 1996-Present multi-packs ar e not valid for use with Article Archive: 1851-1995 multi-packs and vice versa. Once you purchase an article, you may view it as often as you like over t he next 90 days. |
| www.ohiosilc.org/news/2005/050216_harkin_soc_security.html Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) today wrote to President Bush asking him to explain how the administrations Social Security privatiza tion proposals will affect people with disabilities. The presidents own Social Security Commissions calculations assume that disability benefi ts will be cut the same as retirement benefits. Gener al Accounting Office (GAO) report in the 107th Congress found that all S ocial Security privatization proposals would require cuts to disability payments. They do not want to wa it until a proposal surfaces that reduces their benefits. We need to kno w with certainty how the president plans to prevent cuts to these needed benefits, Harkin said. Social Security is critical for the 62 million Americans that receive di sability benefits, and an average healthy 20 year old today has a 30 per cent chance of becoming disabled in his or her lifetime. Equally importa nt, people with disabilities rely on all facets of Social Security, incl uding Retirement Insurance when they age out of SSDI, benefits from thei r parents who have reached retirement age, and Survivors Insurance. All the while, Social Security has been able to provide this support at a r elatively low cost. Historically the disability, retirement, and survivor programs in Social Security have all used the same formula. If the president plans to apply different formulas to each, there are many difficult policy issues that must be resolved. Before Congress can begin to consider Social Security reform, we believe it is essential to know how people with disabilities will be affected. President Bush says that he has no current plans to cut disability benef its. Unfortunately, the presidents So cial Security privatization plan leaves a lot of questions as to how peo ple with disabilities will be treated, Harkin said. We have no details from the president, and I am deeply concerned that he has not thought t his through. Other senators that signed onto the letter include: Harry Reid (D-NY), Jo hn Kerry (D-MA), Jon Corzine (D-NJ), Max Baucus (D-MT), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Tim Johnson (D-SD), Patty Murray (D-WA), Christopher Dodd (D-CT), Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Barbara Boxer (D-CA), and John Rockefeller (D-WV). Among other significant achievements of that legisla tion was a commitment by Congress and the Executive Branch to people wit h disabilities. We decided that as a matter of public policy, people wit h disabilities should never be left out of the discussion. They should n ever be shunted to the side, or considered second class citizens. Mr President, we have listened carefully to all you have said about chan ging the Social Security program. We have not heard how you intend to pr otect people with disabilities. As you know, Social Security is absolute ly critical to millions of Americans with disabilities. We are worried t hat disability insurance is an important aspect of the program that is o ften left out of the debate. Equally important, people with disabilities rely on all facets of Social Security, including Retirement Insurance w hen they age out of SSDI. They rely on benefits from their parents who h ave reached retirement age. They rely on Survivors Insurance, which is critical to families affected by disability that lose a breadwinner. We note that in your Commissions report of December 2001, only two pages were devoted to disability. The Commission says it is not necessarily recommending this, but the proo f is in the numbers. All of the Commission's calculations assume that di sability benefits will be cut the same as retirement benefits. Without t hose cuts, the Commission's numbers simply do not add up. Mr President, people with disabilities are deeply concerned. They dont want to wait until a proposal surfaces that leaves their benefits out. W e need to know with certainty what your thoughts are on how to prevent c uts to these needed benefits. According to published reports, on Februar y 3, a mother of an adult with disabilities asked you what would happen to her daughter if you created private accounts in Social Security, and you said she would not be affected. However, historically the d isability, retirement, and survivor programs in social security have all used the same formula. If you plan to apply different formulas to each, there are many difficult policy issues that must be resolved. Before Co ngress can begin to consider Social Security reform, we believe it is es sential to know how people with disabilities will be affected. To that end, we would appreciate your responses to the following question s: * If you plan to preserve the current formula for Disability Insurance (DI), but apply a less generous formula to retirement benefits, does that mean that people who age out of DI and start receiving old-age benefits will receive a higher benefit than other old-age recipients, or will individuals receiving DI who reach retirement age have their benefits cut dramatically at that time? such as housing programs for people with disabilities and Medicare and Medicaid ? Do you expect this account to carry this person through life? Will that persons benefits and personal accounts be treated the same way as the 30-year old? It has been three years since your Social Security Commission recommended further policy development on the Social Security Disability program. T o date, we have not seen any further reports or details. We look forward to receiving detailed information on these critical issues and working with you to truly strengthen Social Security, while protecting people wi th disabilities. |
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