5/13    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/12/tech/main694925.shtml
        Toyota to produce Hybrid Camry. Honda is FUCKED. First of all
        the Civic Hybrid (a quickly designed crap) pales in comparison
        to the most technological advanced Prius, and their Accord Hybrid
        sucks in terms of mileage (it doesn't even qualify for the 45MPG
        requirement for carpool lane). Honda is FUCKED. How depressing.
                                        -Honda supporter, 1988-2005.
        \_ So what?  I knew that two years ago.
        \_ Qualifying for carpool lane?  I thought qualification is based on
           emission level, not MPG.  A ZEV gas-guzzler qualifies while a high-
           mileage hybrid car with not-so-low emission won't.
           \_ California passed legislation allowing hybrids into carpool
              lane if the mpg is >= 45.  It's not in effect yet waiting
              for federal approval.  --paulwang
              \_ What a retarded law. Why would they specify hybrids?
                 Why not just >=45mpg, or based on emissions? Typical stupid
                 government. Just like when they mandated EV's and then had
                 to backpedal out of that idiocy. And carpool lanes should
                 be used for encouraging carpooling, not environmental shit.
                 How much more gas is wasted by having two lanes of slow
                 traffic sitting there that would go faster with the carpool
                 lane open? They also could incentivize it by tweaking the
                 gas guzzler tax to be more stringent.
                 \_ carpool lanes are a scam to get people to vote for
                    highway construction bonds who otherwise wouldn't.
                    As soon as they go in, the hours and requirements start
                    getting reduced.  -tom
                 \_ any vehicle. Motorcycles get on carpool lane.
                 \_ No gas is wasted. Carpool lanes routinely carry
                    more passengers per hour than the other lanes,
                    especially at rush hour.
                    \_ I don't know about the freeways, but at least this is
                       true for the Bay Bridge, where during commute hours more
                       people pass through the carpool lanes on the left and
                       right ends of the toll plaza than all the other lanes
                       combined.
        \_ I wish Toyota had a Hybrid model when I bought my 2005 Sienna.
        \_ I've said it many times before, a hybrid is just a more efficient
           gas engine.  Why should they get any special treatment?
           \_ incentive for auto makers to build more efficient cars.
           \_ incentive for auto makers to build more efficient cars. Since
              tree huggers have a difficult time getting legislation to
              punish polluters, the next best thing they can do is getting
              legislation to reward those who pollute less. If your point was
              "What does higher efficiency/less pollution have anything to do
              with carpool lane/reducing traffic", you're right.
           \_ Motorcycles also get to use the carpool lane.  We also don't
              have to get smog checks.
              \_ You don't survive crashes. Use of the carpool lane is
                 a small reward in exchange for your life.  My dad rides
                 and w/ the number of near misses he's had in bay area
                 traffic, I keep telling him he's crazy to keep riding.
                 \_ maybe he's an adrenaline junky. Adrenaline Dad.
                    \_ "The Edge... There is no honest way to explain it
                       because the only people who really know where it is
                       are the ones who have gone over.  The others - the
                       living - are those who pushed their control as far
                       as they felt they could handle it, and then pulled
                       back, or slowed down, or did whatever they had to
                       when it came time to choose between Now and Later."
                         --Hunter S. Thompson, from "Hell's Angels"
                  \_ I have been riding for 15 years, crashed only once
                     and walked away from it. But I probably don't ride
                     like Hunter S. Thompson either. -ausman
                     \_ You are very lucky. I've seen several less
                        fortunate people on 85 in the last 10 yrs.
        \_ The Honda Accord isn't designed to be fuel efficient, it's
           designed to have better performance, right?
        \_ I still don't understand what the big deal about the current
           set of hybrids is.  It seems like a gimmick rather an a real
           long term soln to the problem of foreign oil dependancy. Oil
           is a non-renewable resource (abiotic theories aside) and all
           the hybrids will do is to stretch out our supply. It seems
           that all the effort would be better spent on making more cng
           or bio-diesel cars or hybrids w/ cng and b-d.
           \_ Is natural gas reserve in the world larger than oil reserve?
              \_ Not all cng is taken from the reserves; it can be made
                 from corn, &c.
        \_ when you got the chance, you should hear some of the story
           of Toyota's earlier hybrids... they stall in traffic light,
           they stall on a raining day,etc.  very fun to hear that.
           then again, I don't understand why Toyota is pouring money
           onto this technology.. they are not making money on those
           hybrid car yet, eventhough they are opting to offer hybrid
           option on every single model in the USA line up.