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| 5/24 |
| 2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37623 Activity:high |
5/11 "The army sergeant threatened a prospect with arrest if he didn't
report to a recruiting station," obviating the need for draft:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/army.recruiting
\_ ^"The^"A -- A single incident reported by CBS news (and not
\_ ^"The^"An -- A single incident reported by CBS news (and not
confirmed by anyone else) is somehow indicative of behavior of the
entire organization? You're an idiot.
\_ http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou050510_mh_militaryrecruits.2602b7752.html
and http://www.khou.com/images/0505/voicemail.wav for the
actual voice mail. But hey you can just attack the news
organization and ignore reality if it makes you happier.
Here's a hint, the army is suspending ALL recruiting in the face
of this and other scandals (recently another recruiter was caught
doing things like driving protential recruits to their dealer's
house to get drugs, I don't have a good link to the story.)
\_ The army is standing down recruiting efforts to investigate.
Would they do that if they didn't have a suspicion that it
might be indicative? You're an idiot.
\_ The article doesn't say that. Can you even read? It says
they are "expected to" not that they have done it.
Investigating claims is appropriate. Asserting that the
claims are true and represent a general population is not.
\_ Can you? "The Army said it is investigating the
allegations", "A senior Army officer said
Wednesday that the "stand-down" is being ordered
not only because of possible misconduct but
also because the service has had a difficult
time attracting volunteers. The Army wants to
assess the stress facing recruiters."
\_ Forgive my ignorance. When was the last time a draft was in place?
Thx. -- immigrant
\_ 1973. Here is a detailed background on the draft:
http://www.sss.gov/FSbackgr.htm And other info can be found
from the links here:
http://www.sss.gov/Fast%20Facts%20Table.htm
\_ Vietnam
\_ According to Kerry supporters, the draft was going to come back
this January if Bush got reelected. Oops.
\_ With recruitment numbers down and tours continually extended
do you think it's more likely that we'll 1) withdraw or 2)
start a draft?
\_ how about 3) we offer incentives to: keep existing
soldiers in place, re-deploy from Europe, hire more
recruiters, extend deployments, and worry about a draft
only when the shit hits the fan?
\_ You haven't been paying attention. Heard of stop-loss?
Military folk are already pissed about being redeployed
over and over again. Hiring more recruiters doesn't
help when people simply aren't signing. We're in a
corner. Either we declare victory and pull out, or
we get a draft.
\_ Actually I have been paying attention. Everything
I wrote is what Dubya has been doing. My time frame
only extends to the end of his term, though.
Are you saying that there is a > 80% chance we will
withdraw or draft before the end of his term?
I do agree that in the 5-20 year time frame, we will
either withdraw, draft, or make joining the Army more
palatable.
\_ You forgot 4) OUTSOURCE our troops.
\_ which is good, cuz those private army are not subject
to any rules and regulation. Some of the Chinese
vet I've talked to said that when they capture
mercenaries, they would just kill them, period.
I start to understand why they did that. and FYI,
These vets are Nationalist troops operated in South
East Asia in the 1950s.
\_ How about 5) create an army of illegal immigrants (they're
not subject to U.S. laws), and promise citizenship if they
serve well in Iraq. Or, ship inmates from over-crowded
California prison or Guantanamo Bay to Iraq & chain them
together to do dirty and profitable work that Halliburton
is doing. -super troller
\_ We already do 5.
\_ "An army of foreigners not subject to US law" sounds
like a CIA task.
\_ Which Kerry supporters?
\_ No actual Kerry supporters said this. Some people said
the draft could be back by June. More historical
revisionism from the sheeples.
\_ Max Cleland and Howard Dean, aka "some Kerry
surrogates". http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6027815
\_ No where in this article does it mention Jan 2005.
You are full of crap.
\_ Ah. So you agree that Kerry supporters claimed
that Bush will reinstitute the draft, and your
only disagreement is over the time frame used by
the Kerry people. OK.
\_ Yes. And I think Bush will re-instate the
draft in the next 18 months. Tops. -Vet
\_ We'll see in 18 months. That's the great
thing with concrete predictions about the
future -- they can eventually be verified or
discredited.
\_ The dozens of cars I've seen around Berkeley with bumper
stickers that say "Bush '04 / Draft '05"?
\_ Last I checked, it's still 2005.
\_ "We Democrats have successfully stopped Bush from reinstating
the draft. Once again we Democrats have done good for the
American people."
\_ Where is this quote from?
\_ Someone's ass, apparently. -- ulysses |
| 5/24 |
|
| www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/army.recruiting -> www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/army.recruiting/ WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The US Army plans to stop recruiting activities for one day this month to review procedures that its 7,500 recruiters use, an Army official said. Michael Rochelle, head of the Army Recruiting Command, is expec ted to make the announcement, which could come as early as Thursday. The move follows a CBS News report of least two allegations of recruiting abuse. In one case, the network reported a recruiter suggesting how a potential volunteer might cheat to pass a drug test, and in another, a sergeant th reatened a prospect with arrest if he didn't report to a recruiting stat ion. A senior Army officer said Wednesday that the "stand-down" is being order ed not only because of possible misconduct but also because the service has had a difficult time attracting volunteers. With the war in Iraq, recruiters face increased pressure to meet their re cruiting goals. The Army has missed its recruiting targets for three mon ths, and the National Guard and Army Reserve also have fallen short of t heir goals. The purpose of halting recruitment for a day is to refocus recruiters on their mission, reinforce the Army's core values and ensure its procedure s are carried out consistently at all 1,700 stations, an Army spokesman said. The procedure is highly unusual for the Recruiting Command, but "safety s tand-downs" are routinely ordered in military aviation following a serie s of accidents that appear to have a common thread. In the case of aviation, pilots and air crews are grounded for a day whil e they review proper procedures. An Army official could not say whether a recruiting stand-down has been ordered before. |
| www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou050510_mh_militaryrecruits.2602b7752.html CBS Evening News report HOUSTON -- There's been a swift response from the US Army following an exclusive 11 News Defenders investigation into allegations recruiters ar e going too far to sign up new soldiers. Late Tuesday afternoon, 11 News confirmed the US Army will now call for a nationwide stand-down of all recruiting efforts in what a spokesperso n at the Pentagon calls a serious step at self-examination. Thomas Kelt refused to comment on any of the questions asked by 11 N ews Defenders. The Army will set aside a full day on May 20 as the day to have every rec ruiter across America review Army recruiting policies and standards. It' s an effort to stop overly aggressive recruiting tactics. Nationwide, the Army wants to make sure men and women who become soldiers do so without being threatened. Listen to recruiter's voice mail message The announcement comes just one day after the 11 News Defenders exposed a Houston Army recruiter threatening to arrest a local young man if he di dn't report that day to the army recruiting station. Thomas Kelt left this message on that young man's cell phone: "Hey C hris, this is Sgt. Okay, I know you were on your cell probably and just had a bad connectio n or something like that. Anyway, by fe deral law you got an appointment with me at 2 o'clock this afternoon at Greenspoint Mall, okay? That's the Greenspoint Mall Army Recruiting Stat ion at 2 o'clock. Now, Army recruiters across America will take a day to focus on what 11 N ews uncovered here in Houston and what others have found elsewhere in an effort to restore integrity to recruitment. We're told that stand-downs like this are typically only done when the mi litary experiences an increase in accidents or other systemic problems. This one, in particular, is an effort by Army leaders to reinforce Army values and ethics in its recruiters. This text is invisible on the page, but this text is affected by the invi sible item's flow. This text is invisible on the page, but this text is affected by the invisible item's flow. |
| www.sss.gov/FSbackgr.htm Printer Friendly Version The Selective Service System is an independent agency within the Executiv e Branch of the federal government. The Director of Selective Service is appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The legislation under which this agency operates is the Military Selectiv e Service Act. Under this law, the mission of the Selective Service Syst em is twofold: to deliver untrained manpower to the armed forces in time of emergency in accordance with requirements established by the Departm ent of Defense, and to administer the alternative service program for co nscientious objectors. A system of conscription was used during the Civil War and again during W orld War I with the draft mechanism in both instances being dissolved at the end of hostilities. In 1940, prior to US entry into World War II, the first peacetime draft in our nation's history was enacted in respon se to increased world tension and the system was able to fill wartime ma npower needs smoothly and rapidly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. At t he end of the war the draft law was allowed to expire, but it was reenac ted less than two years later to maintain necessary military manpower le vels as a result of the Cold War. From 1948 until 1973, during both peac etime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means. Inducti on authority expired in 1973, but the Selective Service System remained in existence in a "standby" posture to support the all-volunteer force i n case an emergency should make it necessary for Congress to authorize a resumption of inductions. Registration was suspended early in 1975 and the Selective Service System entered into a "deep standby" posture. Beginning in late 1979, a series of "revitalization" efforts were begun in an effort to upgrade the Syst em's capability for rapid mobilization in an emergency, and in the summe r of 1980 the registration requirement was resumed. Presently, young men must register within 30 days of their 18th birthday. The Military Selective Service Act, along with its implementing regulatio ns, provides that the structure of the agency will include a National He adquarters, a State Headquarters in each state, plus one for New York Ci ty, one for the District of Columbia, one for Guam, one for Puerto Rico, and one for the Virgin Islands. The Act and regulations also provide fo r local boards, allocated according to county or corresponding political subdivisions. There is also a provision for Appeal Boards, which cover the same areas served by federal judicial districts plus a National Appe al Board. The Appeal Boards act in cases of persons who do not agree wit h the decisions of the Local Boards. The approximately 185 full-time paid employees of the Selective Service S ystem are primarily civilians hired under the rules prescribed by the Of ficer of Personnel Management (formerly US Civil Service Commission). There are approximately 14 active duty military reserve officers assigne d to Selective Service to provide liaison with the military services and administer the Selective Service Reserve Forces program. These reserve forces are composed of approximately 520 National Guard and Reserve offi cers who are assigned to Selective Service for their monthly drills and two-week active duty training sessions each year. In the event of an eme rgency, these officers could be called to active duty to augment the ful l-time staff. The present structure of the agency consists of the National Headquarters , Data Management Center, and three Region Headquarters. State and local offices were closed in 1976 and would be reactivated only if inductions should be resumed. In the event of a mobilization, Selective Service Reserve Forces Officers would be called to active duty to establish State Headquarters and Area Offices at predetermined locations, and at the same time the Local and Appeal Boards would be activated. A lottery drawing would be conducted t o determine the order in which men would be called, and induction orders would be issued, in lottery number order, by means of Western Union Mai lgrams. The first priority group would consist of men in the calendar ye ar of their 20th birthday. Registrants receiving induction orders would either report to the Military Entrance Processing Station for examinatio n and possible immediate induction, or file a claim for postponement, de ferment or exemption from military service. Such claims would be conside red by the Area Office or the Local Board, depending on the nature of th e claim. Agency mobilization plans are designed to meet the needs of the Department of Defense. |
| www.sss.gov/Fast%20Facts%20Table.htm This page contains Javascripting which your browser dosen't support, or y ou have Javascripting turned off on your browser. |
| msnbc.msn.com/id/6027815 Tom Curry John Kerry greets former Senator Cleland on stage at Democratic National Convention Gary Hershorn / Reuters file Will draft fears sway voters? Cleland and Dean tell students that Bush would conscript them and ship th em to Iraq John Kerry greets former Sen. Max Cleland, a frequent companion on the ca mpaign trail, at the Democratic convention in Boston. By Tom Curry National affairs writer MSNBC Updated: 6:39 pm ET Sept. Elect George Bush, some Kerry surrogates said last week, and you or your children will be drafted to fight in Iraq. Inspiring fear in voters seems to be in political vogue this fall. During a question-and-answer sessi on on Wednesday, the mother of a recent West Virginia University graduat e asked Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated. "There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," the North Carolina senator vowed, raising the question of whether there would be a draft i f Bush remains in the White House. Edwards comment came on the heels of remarks last week by Kerrys friend and fellow Vietnam War veteran, former Georgia Sen. Warning college students In a speech at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, Cleland told student s they might find themselves pressed into military service if Bush wins a second term. America will reinstate the military draft if Bush is re-elected and con tinues the Iraq War, Cleland predicted, according to an account of his s peech by the Colorado Springs Gazette. Cleland has been in a wheelchair since 1968 when he lost both legs and one arm in a grenade accident in V ietnam. Former Kerry rival Howard Dean, now traveling the country to drum up supp ort for Kerry and raise money for Democratic candidates, said last week at Brown University in Providence, RI, "I think that George Bush is ce rtainly going to have a draft if he goes into a second term, and any you ng person that doesn't want to go to Iraq might think twice about voting for him." The Dean-Cleland strategy seems to be an attempt to drive up support for Kerry among college students and perhaps among some parents as well. According to Kerry campaign spokesman Mark Kitchens, Kerrys position is that he does not see the need for a draft. Kerrys view is that the way to attract people (to military service) is to be responsible about the way the military is employed, said Kitchens . military is not carrying the full burden of operations in Iraq and A fghanistan. Concerns about Guard and Reserve Kerry said in a speech to the National Guard Association in Las Vegas Thu rsday that 40 percent of our forces in Iraq are from the Guard and Rese rve. Far too many of you have been on the ground for far too long, much longer than was expected or promised. Far too many of you face additiona l deployments in the months and years ahead. According to a report issued Wednesday by the Government Accountability O ffice (formerly the General Accounting Office), since Sept. org The GAO report said, There are already indications that some portions of the force are being stressed. For example, the Army National Guard fail ed to meet its recruiting goal during 14 of 20 months from October 2002 through May 2004, and ended fiscal year 2003 approximately 7,800 soldier s below its recruiting goal. Partly to remedy this heavy use of the Guard and Reserves, Kerry has prop osed expanding the active-duty Army by 40,000 troops, but without resort ing to a draft. Kitchens said Kerry could meet this goal of 40,000 by ordering an intensi fication of recruitment efforts. Bush opposes draft Both Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have repeatedly said they oppose a draft. "We don't need the draft," Bush told a campaign audience in Florida last month. "I'll tell you one way you make (the all-volunteer Army) work. I just signed a defense appropriations bill, which is the fourth year in a row in which we've raised the pay of those who wear our uniform, and th e pay's getting better. This country does not need a draft, Rumsfeld told an Army sergeant who d just returned from Iraq and asked about the draft at a town hall meeti ng in Fort Bliss, Texas on Aug. Noting the size of the US population, more than 290 million people, Rum sfeld said, If you add up everyone we are looking for in the active for ces, 14 million and the Guard and Reserve and the selective reserve and individual ready reserve and if you add them all up, its about 25 mil lion. And all you have to do is alter the incentives and we can attract and retain all the people we need. Distractions hurt John Kerry Rumsfeld recalled that as a member of the House of Representatives in the 1960s, he introduced legislation to create an all-volunteer Army. He thought in the 1960s that we owed it to people to pay them and treat them like we would if we had to go out and in (the labor) market, attrac t and retain them. And in todays all-volunteer military, Rumsfeld said, Thats what we do. Use of stop-loss orders But Rumsfelds critics, including Kerry, have noted that the Pentagon ha s had to resort to stop-loss orders, which allow the military services t o keep both active and reserve soldiers and Marines on active duty beyon d the end of their obligated service. Michael OHanlon, a defense strategist at the Brookings Institution in Wa shington, said in a recent article in the Army War College journal that after criticizing the Clinton Administration for over-deploying and ove rusing the US military in the 1990s, the Bush administration is now do ing exactly the same thing except on a much larger scale. He warned that large numbers of active-duty troops and reservists may so on leave the service rather than subjecting themselves to a life continu ally on the road. Instead he called f or an expansion of the size of the Army and perhaps the Marines as well. Hardball, Wednesday at 7 pm ET Tim Russert joins Chris Matthews for a special Hardball taking on the f ilibuster debate, the president's choice for UN ambassador, and the st ories you're not seeing in Iraq. |