4/20    Support The Culture Of Life
        http://csua.org/u/bs9
        \_ Related question: How come stores like Walmart and Vons sell yellow
           ribbons car stickers/magnets that say "Support our troops" yet no
           big chain store sells peace signs?
           \_ They can dance around the nonpolitical nature of the "Support"
              issue and no one is going to stand around and scream how
              unpatriotic it is to not sell peace signs, which would happen
              if they did that with the ribbons.
           \_ http://csua.org/u/bsc
              \_ That's nice. I'm sure the cartoonist has served.
                 I'm sure there would not be U.S. involvement in the
                 Middle East if there were no oil.
                 \_ Oh ya, the Marines would heroically waltz in, via the
                    precedent as upholders of light & civilization set in
                    Rwanda, Sudan, East Timor before they figured out about
                    some big-ass fields south of there, etc. etc.  I don't
                    like the "no blood for oil" simplifications you get, but
                    let's at least be realistic--the US hasn't (unfortunately)
                    done any gunboat diplomacy for pure idealism's sake in a
                    very long time.  -John
                    \_ What about Bosnia? They were *Muslims* we helped!
                    \_ How about Haiti? Sure, we didn't want the refugees,
                       but putting in Aristede by Clinton can be seen as mostly
                       idealistic. We sure didn't get anything out of it.
                       \_ OK my bad, I overlooked that, thanks.  You could
                          also say Panama, although we supported pineapple-
                          face for decades before.  My point is mainly that
                          the US has failed to engage in places where we
                          REALLY should have, and taken a ham-handed approach
                          where we might have stayed out (Iran, Chile, maybe
                          even Grenada, depending on your POV.)  -John
                          \_ While I agree, in a lot of cases I this
                             kind of thing is sort of unavaoidable.  The
                             whole foriegn policy changes practically
                             every 8 years.  Sometimes there a big evil
                             that makes us keep around lesser evils.
                             Johnson, Nixon, Carter, WTF?
                 \_ and I bet he doesn't know the impact of the opium trade
                    on China
                 \_ BUD DAY doesn't approve of your tone.
                 \_ Of course there wouldn't.  If there were no oil there the
                    ME would be uninhabited or economically irrelevant, so we
                    wouldn't care what the locals did because it couldn't
                    impact us.
                    \_ It would pretty much be just like Africa, except Israel
                       would probably run the place.
                       \_ Nah, they'd probably ignore it.  Though if they did
                          run it, the Arabs would be in better shape.