4/20    Question about Internet libel: I have a bitchy pissed-off (ex)friend
        who has decided to make it her life's work to get back at me.  She
        routinely posts crap on her blog about me, but today she actually
        posted my full name with her lies.  I did some searches on Google
        for recent legislation/rulings about Internet libel and found
        nothing but opinions about how things should be.  Does anyone know
        the current state of whether blog postings count as libel?  And
        additionally, any suggestions on getting her to stop (and change her
        recent blog post to not include my name) without having to actually
        resort to legal action?
        -jvarga
        \_ This doesn't answer your question but it's related.  A friend of
           mine googled his own name, and found some chick's blog talking about
           "stalking [my friends full name]" which described her going around
           to various places where he works or hangs out to try to stalk him.
           Amusing but harmless.
        \_ I just googled for your name and couldn't find anything...
           \_ The crawlers havn't hit it yet.  A friend who routinely monitors
              her blog tipped me off to it.  The post was made this morning.
              - jvarga
              \_ What, no link?
        \_ There is not really any way to stop someone from doing something
           like this, short of legal action. Even if you go to court, all
           you can probably get is a monetary judgement. You *can* sue for
           libel, but it is expensive. Is this an ex? You are probably
           better off just trying to get some emotional distance from this
           and think about legal action later, when you are not so heated
           about it. -ausman
           libel, but it is expensive and time consuming. Is this an ex-gf?
           You are probably better off just trying to get some emotional
           distance from this and think about what you want to do about it
           later, when you are not so upset about it. -ausman
        \_ In order to answer this question properly, the motd requires that
           you tell the story behind this. Thank you.
           \- i think the toughest thing for you to prove will be harm or
              damage. if she just says you are an asshole or a "butthead
              programmer" that probably wont do it. however, there are
              legal claims in the area of privacy and harassment which is
              a different matter from defamation. i do not know much about
              this other than being aware of this option. that may be more
              fruitful. depending on the WEEB site where this is appearing,
              there may be non-legal approaches to this. --psb
              \_ Yes, I forgot that you can sometimes get postings removed
                 if they violate an AUP at an ISP. This would just force her
                 to change venues, though. Sometimes this is enough.
                 to change ISPs, though. Sometimes this is enough.
                 \_ Sure, just piss her off some more.
        \_ catfight!!
        \_ Get over it. If the blog entries continue, they will sound more
           and more shrill. Unless the accusations significantly affect your
           reputation and you can prove it, it's not worth the time or effort.
           That said, have someone, anonymously or not, let the person know
           that naming you can be seen as defamation of character which is a
           precursor to a possible libel suit. Fear is your pal.
        \_ The libel suit is basically not happening.  The rules for libel
           suits are pretty much the same for blogs/the web as they are for
           print.  The problem is that proving *material* harm (are the things
           she's saying costing you money due to lost job or business
           opportunities?) is *very* hard to do.  The other test you have to
           pass is would an ordinary individual off the street believe the
           things this person is saying are true.  You can try pursuing this
           legally but it is a) expensive and b) 80% likely to fail.  Why not
           just try talking to your ex-friend/gf/life-pal/whatever and saying
           ``Hey, knock it off you're being an immature git.'' in so many
           words. -dans
           \- as i said above, libel is probably not the way to go if it
              is personal stuff [as opposed to "he has been fired mutliple
              time for incompetence"] but there are other (legal) avenues.
              if it is beyond "just talk to her" and contancting isp etc,
              i think you are in "real lawyer" land. --psb
              \_ I don't have any intention of making this legal, I'm just
                 trying to find ways to make her go away.  The relationship
                 ended over a month ago and I've gone on with life (I just have
                 to monitor every so often to play damage control as she tries
                 to mess with my reputation in Berkeley while I'm out of state)\
                 but she's done anything but.  I just need some way to get it
                 to mess with my reputation in Berkeley while I'm out of state)
                 but she's done anything but.  I just need some way to get it
                 through her head that "its over, move the fuck on, stop trying
                 to destroy my life because you feel hurt and vindictive."
                 I've already pretty much cut off communication with her but
                 I'm getting sick of cleaning up all of the crap she's doing to
                 me back in Berkeley, this just being one very very small part
                 of the big picture. - jvarga
                 \_ guess the breakup was anything but amicable
                 \_ I tend to be fairly laissez faire about this thing.
                    Unless your ex is really vindicitve AND really socially
                    adept AND really evil she probably won't do much damage.
                    Your friends know you, and will be able to smell her
                    bullshit a mile a way.  Unless of course all your friends
                    were mutual, and you're playing the divide up the friends
                    game in which case you might want to consider an emergency
                    trip to Berkeley just to play it safe. -dans
                    \_ When you play the divide up the friends game, the girl
                       usually wins. The bar for female's credibility is set
                       really low compared to yours.
                       \_ That's inconsistent with my experieince.  Are you
                          really socially inept, or should I just be happy I
                          don't have friends like yours? -dans
                    \- you can try to push her over the edge so she becomes
                       non-functional.
                   \_ Be the bigger person and rise above it. If someone
                      asks you about it, you can answer, but I don't think you
                      need to defend yourself otherwise. Your friends won't need
                      it and others won't believe you anyway. Avoid going on
                      a retaliatory smear campaign, if you can help it.
                 \_ Dude, it's only been a month, give her more time to get
                    over it.  She sounds like a bit off, but maybe you pushed
                    her.  Next time, choose your gf more wisely.
        \_ We have just been discussing Defamation in my Torts class. Based
           on what we have covered, you might be able to make out a cause of
           action for libel against her. I'll ask my Torts prof and get back
           to you. Anyway, based on what I know:
           Assuming that these statements aren't some sort of public concern
           (you are stealing from the univ or some such) and you are not some
           sort of public official/figure, you will fall into the "private/
           private" category and should be able to get some money or and
           injunction/retraction w/o needing to show actual harm (libel
           can recover w/o actual damages in most cases). If you can show
           knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the truth (NY Times
           actual malice) you might even be able to get presumed and
           punitive damages.
           I think the tricky part will be to show that her statements were
           capable of having a defamatory meaning. You will have to show
           that the statements were more than hyperbole and that they are
           proveably false (opinion is generally not actionable). The tough
           part will be in proving that the statements were capable of
           lowering your reputation or detering others from associating w/
           you or exposed you to hatred, contempt or ridicule.
           What might be better than actually going through w/ a suit is
           to threaten her w/ one and maybe file a complaint to that end.
           You can probably file the complaint yourself in at the ct house
           and serve her via certified mail. That should really spook her.
           \_ Shows what you know. You can't serve someone in state
              simply with certified mail. -williamc
              \_ iirc sec Cal Civ Proc Code Sec 415 allows in state
                 service by mail in lieu of personal service.
                 \_ and you recalled wrong. If you actually read the code
                    you still need to attempt to serve in person first and
                    THEN mail a copy. Look, buddy, I work at a law firm,
                    we have to go through a process server or through a
                    3rd party who's over 18 years of age. If the OP's
                    location is unknown you have to do a due diligence
                    search and show the court
                    before appearing. Serving papers in-state can get messy.
                    Also, you can't just leave the papers in a mailbox when
                    serving, you usually have to make best-efforts attempts
                    at contacting the OP someone who can give it to the OP
                    like a landlord or a relative.
                    -williamc
                 \_ You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, this doesn't
                    usually work with things like this because the OP can
                    just ignore it and after 20 days you'll have to server
                    them in person, which is why we never go through this
                    route and use process servers. -williamc
                    \_ Okay. I didn't know that. I just remember my civ
                       pro prof saying that in ca, you could use mail
                       for in state service but that some states don't
                       allow mail for in state service. thanks for
                       the info.
                 \_ Maybe we should deport you to Canada for saying something
                    williamc doesn't like....
                    \_ Well, let's just say that maybe we should deport people
                       who don't actually read the code carefully to Canada.
                       Hey, maybe you can get served through registered mail
                       within the province! -williamc
           \_ what law school do you attend?
        \_ Just curious...so she is posting things about you on the
           Internet, and you are posting things about her on the MOTD...I
           don't see much difference really...if she is reading these posts,
           she would probably consider it slandering too.
           \_ Now there is a stupider than average comment.
           \_ It's only slander if it's not true.  -tom
              \_ what can we say about jvarga's claim that his ex is bitchy
                 and has made it her life's work to get back at him by lying
                 about him on her blog?
                 \_ Generally a statement has to be proveable true/false
                    to be actionable. The statement that she is 'bitchy' is
                    probably not actionable b/c it is basically an opinon,
                    or an insult. Similarly the statement that it is "her
                    life's work" is also not actionable b/c it is basically
                    hyperbole and no one would really think that she had
                    made it her life's work to get jvarga.
                    Now the statement that she is 'lying' might be actionable
                    if she is not lying. However, if we assume that jvarga
                    is telling the truth (probably a safe assumption), then
                    the statement is not actionable.
              \_ actually, some states that still use common law will find
                 slander even when the statement is true IF the person who
                 made the statement acted out of ill will (assuming that
                 there are no 1st amd limits).
           \_ Responding to a defamatory comment or asking for information
              regarding such comments is considered 'self-help' and is in
              generally not considered defamatory on its own.