Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 37191
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2021/10/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/24   

2005/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37191 Activity:very high
4/14    Japan is pulling a fast one in China Sea, just before meeting of
        foreign ministers.
          http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
        Japanese government approves drilling in contested water; "the Defense
        Agency and the Japan Coast Guard" will "ensure the safety of the
        Japanese firms involved." (remarks at the very end).
        \_ You can't keep backing down forever.  The only way to deal with a
           bully is to confront them at some point.
           \_ I agree 100%. Who's the biggest bully in the world?
           \_ That's what Germans said beforing invading CZ and Poland.
              \_ So long as you are consistent in the behavior you accept
                 from the parties.  If you accept Chinese consternation when
                 it's thwarted, then you accept US (or whatever other nation)
                 consternation when it is thwarted also.  If you accept the
                 Chinese military moving in to occupy the questionable areas,
                 then you accept someone else's invasion also.
                 \_ The url syas Japanese military is going to patrol the
                    contested water, as they have already done there and
                    over some islet in dispute, not the other way around.
                    Your "China Bad" reflex is hurting basic reading
                    comprehension.  Sad.
           \_ That's what Germans said beforing invading CZ and Poland.  Some
              just has a habit of calling the victim bully and the bully victim
              \_ Yep.  The Chinese started to tap into a pool of resource
                 that crosses into contested territory.
                 \_ You are confused which side your argument supports.
                    \_ it all depends on your perspective.
                       \_ Only if you are already fixated.
        \_ Why is Japan pulling a fast one?   China started test drilling
           first and would not make its plans known to Japan.
           \_ China drilled in a area where even Japan acknowldged to be in
              Chinese domain, but now Japan will drill in a contested area.
              A boundary between two countries is valid iff it is acknowledged
              by both.  China asked but Japan has refused to negotiate over the
              dispute.
              \_ Unfortunately, while the Chinese are drilling in uncontested
                 areas, they may be tapping into a pool of resource that
                 crosses over into the Japanese exclusive economic zone.
                 This makes the Chinese test drill a contested issue.  While
                 the Japanese may have refused China's proposal to jointly
                 develop the area, the Chinese have also turned down the
                 Japanese proposal to evenly divide the sea between China and
                 Japan.  Nor have the Japanese turned down the Chinese joint
                 development as such.  The Japanese government has asked for
                 Chinese drill data before they would consider the proposal,
                 and China has refused to provide any information.
                 \_ Japan "claims" the reservior is connected to theirs.
                    \_ I don't think there's much doubt that this is japan's
                       claim.  Perhaps you mean to put quotes around
                       "connected".
                    Saddam made the same claim about oil field in Kuwait as the
                    reason to invade it.  If the air moleculres I breathe is
                    claimed to have passed Japan, do I have to bow to the
                    Emporor too?  As for the border, Japan simply "declared" a
                    "middle" line between Okinwawa, which was brutally annnexed
                    and colonized by Japan ~15 years before it did the same to
                    Taiwan and ~25 years before it did to Korea, and some spot
                    on mainland China.  It refused to discuss this with China.
                 \_ Saddam made the same claim about oil field in Kuwait
                    tapping into Iraq's as the reason to invade it.  If the
                    air moleculres I breathe is claimed to have passed Japan,
                    do I have to bow to the Emporor too?  As for the border,
                    Japan simply declared a "middle" line between Okinawa
                    and some spot on Chinese mainland.  Okinawa was forcibly
                    annnexed and brutally colonized ("disposed" is the
                    officially sanctioned word) by Japan ~15 years before it
                    did the same to Taiwan and ~25 years before it did so to
                    Korea.  It went free after WWII, but Japan reannexed it in
                    1972.  Regardless whether that is legitimate, it is clear
                    Japan's rapidly expanding border is a grave concern for its
                    neighbors, but it continues on a roll to impose its will.
                    Will they next claim a land border between Korea and
                    Shanghai, or between Pearl Harbor and Boston?
                 \_ China proposed joint exploration and offered to negotiate
                    the border dispute.  Japan simply unilaterally announed
                    where they want it to be.  This is not how normal country
                    resolves difference with neighbors. You are admitting the
                    facts, but your use of 'proposal','turn down,' and 'refuse'
                    are clever spins.  Isn't it odd to ask China to provide
                    very valuable data when Japan does not agree to form
                    a collaboration with it?  Hey, give me the source code to
                    longhorn before I consider whether to buy it.  No? You must
                    be evil!
                    \_ How can you negotiate over something when you don't
                       what you are negotiating over?  Of course Japan has
                       to ask for survey data before it can consider the
                       Chinese joint exploration proposal.
                    \_ Wrong analogy.  Source code = software.  However,
                       Survey data != actual oil
                       \_duh, analogy is not meant to be precise. If you were
                         serious about the discussion, you'd have gotten the
                         point, but clearly you are not.  Besides, Chinese
                         drilling is done in uncontested water. Japan's request
                         for data is just their way of saying "fuck you."
2021/10/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/24   

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Cache (3574 bytes)
www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
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