Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 37158
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2005/4/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37158 Activity:high
4/12    Should China or Japan apologize? Which side are you on and why?
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/12/china.japan
        \_ What's astounding to me is that the politics within Japan keep
           the necessary reform of textbooks from happening. It IS appalling
           that many Japanese people make it all the way through college
           oblivious to why much of Asia hates them. It also continues to give
           Beijing something it can use as a diplomatic lever when they want
           something. It would be difficult for Beijing to take the moral high
           ground if it didn't have this drum to beat. The fact we're hearing
           about this now makes me suspect Beijing is trying to pull a fast
           one in some other area. Check on the conflict over natural gas in
           the China Sea lately? -- ulysses
           \_ Japan's entry as a permanent member of the Security Council.
           \_ So China is by default the bad one in any disputes?  I once met
              an American who thought opium war is about Chinese trying to sell
              opium to Britain and getting punished, and so I am not surprised
              to hear this on the motd.  (No swiftboat troll please)  Japan has
              been pulling "fast ones" in China sea for years, but you never
              hear it in the west.  Korea used its navy to seize some islands
              it (rightly) claims from Japan.  Have you heard of that?  China
              has been relying on (empty) protests.  No good deed goes
              unpunished, I guess.
           \_ It seems that Japan is pulling a fast one.
        http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
                Japan government approves drilling in contested region;
                Japan government approves drilling in contested water;
                "the Defense Agency and the Japan Coast Guard" will "ensure
                the safety of the Japanese firms involved."
        \_ Here's an interesting perspective I had not seen anywhere else:
           http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GD14Ad06.html
           \_ Not mentioned elsewhere?  You have to be kidding.  I read it
              everywhere.  Every time anything happens with China, it must
              have a hidden, devious and sinister motive, according to all
              the western (and Japanese) news, from the NYT to freerepublic.
              China builds a highway?  It is trying to the supress freedom,
              etc.  One of my favorite was from The Economist.  Right after
              Musharraf's coup in Pakistan, Econ. condemns it.  Then China
              publicly (and mildly) expressed concern over the coup.  Econ.
              panicked and switched its stance, saying basically that since
              China does not like it, the coup must be a good thing after all!
              \_ The western media is extremely biased when it comes
                 to news about China. Whatever the news is, they can
                 always spin it in such a way that they can say
                 something bad about China. Everything you read about
                 China is negative. If you read enough of these news,
                 it's natural to form a negative opinion. They are not
                 lying (for the most part), they are just extremely
                 selective on the 'facts'.
        \_ Apologize for what?  It seems clear that Japan has yet to
           acknowledge let alone apologize for the various atrocities
           it committed throughout Asia in the 1930s-1940s (and earlier).
           So yeah, Japan should apologize for that.  What in particular
           were you thinking China should apologize for?  China has many
           things for which to apologize, but for protests in front of
           the .jp embassy?  come on. --Jon
           \_ According to that article "Japan's leaders have so far
              apologized to China on no fewer than 17 occasions since the
              two nations restored diplomatic ties in 1972, according to
              The Economist Global Agenda."
              I dunno, China *is* a scary country.
                                               _/
Even ignoring the word play that comes in every
such so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
"apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology that he did
not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should find yourself "scary."
As for the article, it is quite typical and predictable of most
western journalist trying to insinuate that China does not have a
valid case in any contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts"
and quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea started
earlier and continue to this day.  They have an equally valid case for
their anger, but you wouldn't hear much of it on the western press,
and rarely if ever in a negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want
from Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere and
serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief from their conscience
"War was wrong and I now want to be your good neighbor," instead of its
current "I was your master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that
hurt, and now under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
anything, the Chinese government has been holding back popular
resentment on this issue, giving Japan time, decades of it, to act up.
What they got in return were slaps on the face, year after year.  The
textbooks have been getting worse every (4?) years, the period of revision
and review by the Japanese government.  They now state in the textbooks
that it is China's fault that it was attacked, invaded, and occupied,
it's Korea's fault to be in Japan's way to conquer China that it had
to be invaded, that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within the normal
conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts' finding of wartime atrocity
were unfounded, that Japan made great sacrifice during WWII with the
sole intention to save Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is
this for an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not the
work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar screen, but a
wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted campaign by leading
politicians to reassert Japanese economic, military, and political
domination over its neighbors, including but not limited to its
induction into security council, perhaps permanently, this year.  Only a
small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens have stood
up and condemned this.
                   Malformated verbal diarrhea _/
                   deleted.
              \_ Even ignoring the word play that comes in every such
                 so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
                 "apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology
                 that he did not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should
                 find yourself "scary." As for the article, it is quite
                 typical and predictable of most western journalist trying
                 to insinuate that China does not have a valid case in any
                 contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts" and
                 quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea
                 started earlier and continue to this day.  They have an
                 equally valid case for their anger, but you wouldn't hear
                 much of it on the western press, and rarely if ever in a
                 negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want from
                 Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere
                 and serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief
                 from their conscience "War was wrong and I now want to be
                 your good neighbor," instead of its current "I was your
                 master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that hurt, and now
                 under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
                 anything, the Chinese government has been holding back
                 popular resentment on this issue, giving Japan time,
                 decades of it, to act up.  What they got in return were
                 slaps on the face, year after year.  The textbooks have
                 been getting worse every (4?)  years, the period of
                 revision and review by the Japanese government.  They now
                 state in the textbooks that it is China's fault that it was
                 attacked, invaded, and occupied, it's Korea's fault to be
                 in Japan's way to conquer China that it had to be invaded,
                 that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
                 Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within
                 the normal conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts'
                 finding of wartime atrocity were unfounded, that Japan made
                 great sacrifice during WWII with the sole intention to save
                 Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is this for
                 \_ Is this true? I find this shocking. links?
                    \_ The Japanese claim may have some validity depending
                       on what point in history one is talking about.
                       Japan's attitude was a changing mixture of "dang,
                       we are getting screwed by the western powers",
                       "we need to get strong and help asia defend itself",
                       "hey, we want our own part of the imperialism pie",
                       "uh oh, china is getting stronger, we better nip it
                       in the bud", "koreans and chinese are sub-humans,
                       we are superior and should kill them or rule over
                       them".  The whole process goes back up till several
                       decades before WWII, includes the Russo-Japanese
                       War (1905), Sino-Japanese War (1894/5), etc.
                       Of course, the revisionists these days just focus
                       solely on the "We are just trying to
                       defending asia against western imperialism" part.
                     \_ If you read Chinese or Korean, it should be widely
                        available.
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-25/02035456043s.shtml
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-24/13325453393s.shtml
                        are two examples in Chinese.  I suspect that it is not
                        that hard to find Japanese version either.  The
                        Japanese groups behind the textbook rewriting are quite
                        proud of what they did and quite likely they are
                        bragging what changes they will put in the future.  I
                        am sorry I cannot find any western journalists willing
                        to report on the textbooks.  One has to look deep into
                        their soul to figure out why.
                 an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not
                 the work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar
                 screen, but a wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted
                 campaign by leading politicians to reassert Japanese
                 economic, military, and political domination over its
                 neighbors, including but not limited to its induction into
                 security council, perhaps permanently, this year. Only a
                 small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens
                 have stood up and condemned this.
                                        - formatted for op
                 \_ Well said, thank you! -ray
              \_ I imagine the problem is not so much that Japan hasn't
                 apologized but that Japanese text book publishers keep
                 putting out books that (in China's opinion) minimizes
                 Japanese atrocities during WWII.  How much (central)
                 governmental control does Japan have over its textbooks?
                 \_ I understand the Education Ministry is very nationalist.
                 \_ "The acrimonious exchanges come after a week of rising
                     tensions over the Japanese Government's approval of a
                     controversial school textbook, which plays down the
                     extent of historical atrocities committed by Japan.
                     Among its other perceived flaws, the book, which was
                     written by a panel of nationalist educators, removed
                     all reference to 'comfort women'  Asian women forced
                     into sexual slavery by the Japanese Imperial Army."
                     http://csua.org/u/bo2  (UK Times)
              \_ "... apologized ... no fewer than 17 occasions ..."
                 apologized for what?
                 \_ "We're sorry you're all a bunch of pussies."
                 \_ "We're sorry we did the good ole in-and-out on your
                     country".
                     country" (seriously)
                     \_ It's not even "We're sorry about the in-and-out ...".
                        It's "We feel sorry about the in-and-out ...".  In
                        other words, it was explicitly only an expression of
                        resentment, not an apology.
        \_ Japan was stupid to accept the new revisions to the textbooks.
           In an ideal world, Japan should back out to the old revisions and
           send back the new ones for review.
        \_ What about Germany? What do text book in Germany say about WWII?
           \_ The holocaust was a JEWISH CONSPIRACY!  It never happened!1!
           \_ 'Germany continues to compensate victims even today, although
               World War II ended 60 years ago, Mr. Roh observed.
               "Germany also publishes history textbooks through
               consultation with its neighbors," [South Korean President
               President Roh Moo-hyun] said. He said that South Korea is
               envious of Germany's neighbors for having such an opportunity.'
               http://csua.org/u/bo1 (JoongAng Daily)
           \_ U.S. textbooks are an interesting piece of fiction, too.
              \_ I'm glad you learned from them to get your degree as well
        \_ Imagine if Germany did what Japan has done.  German president/pm
           visits cemetary where Hitler and his generals were interred to
           pay respects.  Germany approves new history books whitewashing
           the holocaust. -nivra
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Th e Japan Times article Tokyo to let Japan firms test-drill in contested seas Applicants seek rights to gas fields eyed by China By MAYUMI NEGISHI Staff writer Japan said Wednesday it has begun processing applications that would allo w domestic companies to test-drill in contested waters in the East China Sea where China plans to launch full-scale drilling for natural gas. The move comes on the heels of heated anti-Japanese demonstrations in var ious cities across China and could exacerbate the already strained polit ical relations with its largest trading partner, observers said. "This is just (regular) procedure," Koizumi claimed to reporters later We dnesday. "We will proceed (with handling the applications) in an orderly manner." Oil companies first applied for rights to conduct exploratory drilling fo r oil and gas in the area in the 1960s to the then Ministry of Internati onal Trade and Industry. The applications have been on hold for four decades, however, because the area lies just within Japan's self-claimed exclusive economic zone, whi ch China has not formally acknowledged. Beijing asserts that its EEZ ext ends farther than the median line set by Japan. China is the world's second-largest consumer of oil and Japan is the thir d-largest. And in an age of spiking energy prices, China's test-drilling in adjacent waters has raised concerns among government and industry of ficials in Tokyo that Beijing is targeting Japan's underwater resources. On April 1, MITI's successor, the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry , said it completed a geophysical survey that shows two of the natural g as fields China is currently tapping, roughly halfway between Okinawa Pr efecture and China, may extend into Japan's EEZ. METI chief Shoichi Nakagawa said at the time that Japan would begin to pr ocess test-drilling requests if China did not comply with Tokyo's reques ts for details on its gas projects and a halt in ongoing exploration in a week's time. In explaining the timing of Wednesday's announcement, a senior Foreign Mi nistry official said the government thought it best to start granting dr illing rights to Japanese developers before Foreign Minister Nobutaka Ma chimura's Sunday visit to Beijing, where he is to meet with his Chinese counterpart, Li Zhaoxing. "We thought it would give a bad impression if Japan granted the drilling rights after the two ministers discussed the (drilling) issue," reckoned the official, who asked not to be named. He also said that if Japan's decision to start processing applications wa s delayed, it would give the wrong impression to the Chinese side that T okyo was only bluffing and would not actually grant developers rights. Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda told reporters in the morning tha t the decision doesn't mean there isn't a chance of amicably resolving t he matter. "We would like working-level talks between the two countries on this and other issues pertaining to Sino-Japanese relations as a whole to continu e," he said. METI officials are studying applications for exploratory drilling in a 3 6 million-hectare area within Japan's claimed EEZ. It will take two to three months for oil companies to get test-drilling r ights, after which it will take at least a month before actual drilling can start. Drilling could cost at least 3 billion yen, according to offi cials. In addition to providing monetary support, METI will work with the Foreig n Ministry, the Defense Agency and the Japan Coast Guard to ensure the s afety of the Japanese firms involved, the officials added.
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By Marc Erikson SHENZHEN - Here in Shenzhen from Hong Kong last Sunday with a couple of f riends for some weekend shopping, I had the misfortune of bumping into a several-thousand strong anti-Japanese demonstration at a shopping cente r - a day trip wasted. Demonstrations had also been held the previous Su nday in this special-economic-zone city across the mainland border with Hong Kong. At that time, some Japanese (and for good measure, other) department stor e display windows were smashed, some items looted. This has been going o n for the better part of the past two weeks, not just in Shenzhen, but i n Beijing, Changsha, Chengdu and other places. The never-ending controversy over Japanese textbooks once again allegedly touched off the anti-Japanese protests; other issues apparently include Japan's effort to gain a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, the true ownership of the Diaoyutai/Senkaku islands, and claims to oil-and-gas rich undersea territory in the East China Sea. What struck me was the well-organized nature of the demonstration. A guy in a dark brown suit (no tie, though) diligently burned a Japanese flag; once aflame, it was quickly doused by another protester prudently equip ped with a fire extinguisher. Then there was the designated hitter/screa mer - a fellow wielding a broom stick (which, unbeknownst to me, may hav e some marshal arts significance) who - carried aloft by two stout men - delivered vicious blows with both ends of the stick to the head and bod y of a puppet of Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi carried by a guy wearing a protective motor cycle helmet. And then there were the "ri ot police", accompanying the protest march more like parade marshals at New York's St Patrick's Day parade up Fifth Avenue. We thought we'd ask some of the protesters - more like revelers, actually - what this was all about. "Whitewash," said one of them (in English) a nd repeated the word several times over, presumably referring to the all eged whitewash of Japanese war crimes against China in present-day textb ooks. Where did the Japanese flags come from tha t were ceremoniously burnt? A guy handed them out when they boarded the bus that took them to the demonstration. I can't vouch for it that the Beijing demonstrations were as contrived an d carefully staged. But people picking up rocks on cue as TV cameras foc used on them and making quite a show of hurling them at the windows of t he Japanese Embassy while "riot police" looked the other way strongly su ggest it - and suggest the same organizers of the spontaneous anti-Japan ese outpouring. Sunday noon, Asia Times Online's Chinese-language sister publication (alo ng with most or all Chinese media outlets) received an instruction from the Communist Party's central publicity department (via provincial propa ganda units) to black out completely any and all reports of the protest rallies. Publications staff were, however, permitted to join the demonst rations if they saw fit. The obvious question is, why was all this cooked up, for what purpose, an d why now? There are no convincing answers, and it's in the nature of su ch contrivances that the originators won't talk. One thing, though, is q uite certain: the Chinese claim (at vice foreign minister's level) that Japan is to blame for the unrest is absurd. Sure, Koizumi has insisted o n visiting Yasukuni Shrine (war memorial were the remains of several con victed and executed Japanese war criminals are interred) every year. And, yes, the Japanese are not the most r epentant of souls when it comes to their actions in World War II. But after seeing what I saw in Shenzhen, I know that the Chinese governme nt and/or Communist Party got this thing going and kept it going. From the looks of it (the TV pictures), students were invo lved in the Beijing demonstrations. But in Shenzhen there are no student s It's a special economic zone chock full of contract workers from all over China, working in factories or - per chance - in brothels. And don' t tell me this is an arrogant "elitist" view and that factory workers ar e as capable of being indignant about the historical wrongs done to the nation as university students! To be systematic about it, there seem to be three possibilities: 1) the g overnment wants to divert attention from pressing domestic problems; Similar such protests over land, taxes and so on have be en erupting regularly over the past several years. Still, they do not ap pear to pose a serious or immediate threat to governmental authority. It has also been noted that Shanghai did not participate in the protests. But it would seem quite a stretch to construe an ongoing factional quarr el between former party chief and state president Jiang Zemin and his su ccessor Hu Jintao out of that. That leaves international leverage - and that certainly appeared to be th e message when Premier Wen Jiabao told Tokyo on Tuesday that it must squ arely face up to history. can it exert greater r esponsibility in the international community." Japan is lobbying to become a permanent member of the United Nations Secu rity Council. Wen is telling Japan, shape up if you want "Asia's" suppor t Note, he didn't say China's. Beijing is challenging Japan for economi c leadership in Asia. And Beijing wants to be the acknowledged leading a nd unchallenged regional power. As for t he vehicle for conveying it, the issue of distortion of history doesn't seem the best choice. The distortions that litter Chinese history from 1 949 till now are too many to count.
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The Times and The Sunday Times electronic paper The Times and The Sunday Times electronic paper World News April 11, 2005 Textbook dispute has neighbours at each others throats From Leo Lewis in Tokyo and Clifford Coonan in Beijing RELATIONS between Japan and China fell to new lows at the weekend as angr y crowds in Beijing pelted the Japanese Embassy with rocks, attacked Toy ota cars and waved banners referring to their neighbours as excrement and prostitutes. As the violence continued into a second day Nobutaka Machimura, the Japan ese Foreign Minister, summoned the Chinese Ambassador in Tokyo to lodge a formal complaint about what he called extremely regrettable incident s Although China issued an expression of regret over the troubles, politica l insiders told The Times yesterday that senior members of the Japanese Government did not believe that authorities in Beijing had done enough t o prevent the protests turning nasty. The Chinese Foreign Ministry said: The Japanese side must earnestly and properly treat major issues that relate to Chinese peoples feelings, su ch as the history of invasion against China, do more to promote mutual t rust and maintain bilateral relations, rather than the opposite. The demonstrators marched through downtown Beijing chanting Down with Ja pan, protesting against Japans wartime past as well as Tokyos bid for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council. The intense souring of the mood between Japan and its neighbours comes as a meeting of American and Japanese defence officials held talks on the militarisation of civilian airports and harbours in the event of crises emerging on the Korean peninsula or in the Taiwan Strait. At the same ti me, a town in South Korea issued an ultimatum to Japan over a disputed i sland. The acrimonious exchanges come after a week of rising tensions over the J apanese Governments approval of a controversial school textbook, which plays down the extent of historical atrocities committed by Japan. Among its other perceived flaws, the book, which was written by a panel of na tionalist educators, removed all reference to comfort women Asian wo men forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese Imperial Army. China and South Korea remain furious with Japan over the repeated visits of Junichiro Koizumi, the Prime Minister, to the Yasukuni Shrine in cent ral Tokyo, a monument to Japans war dead that also honours a number of Class-A war criminals. After intense criticism both abroad and at home, Mr Koizumi has not yet confirmed whether he will make the annual visit t his year. The Beijing protests, which observers said drew at least 17,000 people, r eflected anger that has led many Chinese stores to start informal boycot ts of Japanese goods. One placard being brandished at the protests read that Japanese products should be driven out of China, listing names of Japanese companies. As well as fury over the apparent whitewashing of Japans war record in t he new textbook, South Korean anger centres on the issue of two islets, known as Takeshima to Tokyo and Dokdo to Seoul, which have little strate gic value but have been the source of a dispute between the countries fo r decades. The new book describes the islands as illegally occupied by Korea, a phrase that drew the rage of President Roh of South Korea last week. The Japanese prefecture of Shimane fanned the flames this month b y designating a Takeshima Day. A town in Miyazaki Prefecture, nowhere near Takeshima island, has receive d a letter from its twin town in South Korea demanding that it state its position on Takeshima Day, or the sister-town arrangement would be en ded. In a recent interview, Mr Roh said that while it was true that Japan had apologised on several occasions for its past aggression during its imper ial period, Japans recent behaviour had nullified those apologies. As the acrimony grows, Mr Koizumi has been advised by his prime ministeri al predecessors to try to move up a summit with Mr Roh, scheduled for Ju ne, in an attempt to repair the strained bilateral ties. Sony Ericsson phone Visit our special section, in association with the Sony Ericsson S700i, f or step-by-step advice and how to get the best out of the new camera equ ipment available in 2005. Click here to find out how a small contribution will make a big diffe rence CHARITY APPEAL The Sunday Times is raising money for Medecins Sans Frontieres, an intern ational charity providing medical and food aid in Darfur.
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Print Roh praises Germany's acceptance of war guilt April 13, 2005 BERLIN - Making barely-veiled criticisms of Japan, Pres ident Roh Moo-hyun expressed his respect for Germany's apologies for its past military aggression while meeting with politicians here yesterday. Mr Roh met with 20 German politicians, including Hartmut Koschyk, member of the Bundestag and chairman of the German-Korean Friendship Parliamen tary Group, and praised Germany's handling of its dark history. "I respect Germany's dealing with its past," Mr Roh said. "It is regaini ng the international community's trust through its courage and conscienc e in admitting and repenting of its past." Germany continues to compensate victims even today, although World War II ended 60 years ago, Mr Roh observed. "Germany also publishes history textbooks through consultation with its n eighbors," he said. He said that South Korea is envious of Germany's nei ghbors for having such an opportunity. Korean officials have angrily criticized the Japanese government for its authorization of school textbooks that both Korea and China say gloss ov er Japan's aggression in Asia before and during World War II. Mr Roh met yesterday with several figures who were centrally involved in German reunification in 1990, including Lothar de Maiziere, East German chancellor at the time of unification, and Egon Bahr, former West Germa n chancellor Willy Brandt's diplomatic advisor. Separately, he met with current Bundestag President Wolfgang Thierse. He said Germany's experience offered a valuable lesson for the divided Ko rean Peninsula. Many of the German politicians expressed support for the Roh administrati on's efforts to promote exchanges with North Korea, saying that psycholo gical unification takes a long time even after legal and systemic unific ation is achieved. "Unification cost a huge sum of money, but the cost would have been great er had we not reunified," Mr Thierse said. On current inter-Korean relations, Mr Roh said, "There are some difficul ties now. But I expect that Pyongyang will give up its nuclear programs and open up eventually." Mr Roh also met with businessmen and encouraged them to invest in Korea. "The labor relations in Korea, which you are concerned about, are impro ving at great speed," he said.