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| 5/24 |
| 2005/3/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:36977 Activity:high |
3/30 So what do people here think of the Minuteman Project in Arizona, and
the response of the ACLU and Vicente Fox? -emarkp
\_ I don't know anything about it, URL from CNN or http://Fox.com?
\_ http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050330-125346-1389r.htm
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0317fox17.html
or just plain:
http://news.google.com/news?q=minuteman+project+vicente+fox
\_ If they stick to never actually confronting immigrants, it sounds
legal. It's certainly an excellent diversionary tactic given there's
been no sign so far that any terrorists have tried to come up
via Mexico. Blaming brown people has worked well as a pretty good
rallying call for the right. I also predict Fox won't get any help
from Bush this time since Bush doesn't need the Latino vote anymore.
-- ulysses
\_ If you ever lived in Southern California for over 10+ years and
attended public elementary to high school there, you'll know exactly
how you feel. If you're Latino, you'll feel that S Cal is a great
place where you get free subsidy and support from your own people.
If you're not Latino, you'll think S Cal is a shithole, a perfect
example of great wealth inequality where the richest and the
poorest people living in one place. This imbalance of wealth
contributes to conflicts unique in S. Cal. For example, S. Cal
having the highest car insurance rate (1/4 are staged for insurance
money), gangsters, drive-by shooting (my school had drive by twice),
ethnic fights, etc.
-someone who lived there +10 years and witnesses a lot of shit
\_ ...that's right, those pesky Latinos are getting all of those
subsidies, and that's what's wrong with everything. Dude, I'd
tell you to go to hell, but there's no place possibly worse to
live in than your own mind.
\_ I'm anti ILLEGAL immigrant but I'm not anti immigrant. Extra border
patrol will discourage drugs and contrabands into the US as well
as discourage desperate people coming into the US, who usually get
taken advantage of. If people want to come to the US, they should
first learn a bit more about the country (not from Hollywood or
magazines) and come in LEGALLY. -parents who came in legally
\_ you're a moron.
\_ why is he a moron? You need to explain so he'll stop being one
\_ morons don't stop being morons.
\_ if that's true, I will stop trying to change tom
\- there is a certain amount of hypocrisy for free
traders to be in favor of the free movement of
goods and capital but not labor. much of the
rationale for the efficiency gains of trade/$
apply to labor as well ... labor is another
"factor of production". --psb
\_ Although I agree, there are other factors
that are relevant to people (e.g. overpopulation
concerns, cultural effects, etc.) that are not
relavent to other factors of production. I
have been for open borders most of my life, but
i'm not sure it is a very pragmatic stance.
The history of the world has been a history of
poverty and income/power disparity. The U.S.
has managed (along with some other countries) to
overcome that state to some degree. It is perhaps
justifiable to try to insulate it, if for no other
reason than to act as an example of what is possible
(though, i have to say, this rings false) -phuqm
\- yes i understand what you say, but there are
"other factors" that also apply to harmonizing
IP regimes, high capital mobility etc. but the
fundamental argument about "let the factors of
production find where they will get the best
return" and the ideas of comparative and abs
advantage apply to labor too. yes, letting
a lot of Changs, Mohammeds and Singhs into
a lot of Changs, Parthas and Mohammeds into
the country has "side effects" but so do
coke and pepsi, monsanto etc. --psb
Coke, Pepsi and Monsanto. --psb
\_ Labor can come here, they just have to do it
legally. I don't advocate allowing drug money
to move unhindered to offshore banks either.
Nothing hypocritical about it at all.
\-i dont think you understand what i mean by
free movement of labor.
\_ Then explain yourself.
\_ Agreed. Those who break the law should be punished, not awarded.
\_ Why can't we just shoot them? I am getting sick and tired of all
those mexicans standing on the street of SF looking for work, and
all of them are illegal. They are potential terriorists, let's
do what we do best, shoot first, ask questions later. It WILL solve
the illegal alien problem.
\_ Keep a tight grip on your soap when you're in jail for
shooting the wrong one.
\_ it's still murder, whether a citizen or an illegal.
\- how about we impose public lashings for people employing
illegal aliens unless they can come up with say a
photocopy of the forged documentation. --psb
\_ The big problem is what happens when the Border Patrol doesn't
send someone out. Say the INS is busy dealing with something else
and the Minutemen call with a possible illegal. The INS looks bad
because they're overwhelmed. The MM get peeved. Say this happens
a dozen times. Will the MM get frustrated and do something stupid? |
| 5/24 |
|
| washingtontimes.com/national/20050330-125346-1389r.htm Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials said the plan will be announced today, just days before the start of a border vigil by an arm y of civilian volunteers angry about a lack of immigration enforcement b y Congress and the Bush administration. The DHS officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expect th at as many as 150 agents will be dispatched to Arizona within the next f ew days and that the rest will be on the border by midsummer -- when mos t foreigners try to sneak into the country. The move follows bipartisan criticism of President Bush's failure to fund 2,000 agents set out in the intelligence-overhaul bill that he sign ed in December. TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council union, i mmediately said the 500 new agents are not enough. "Right now, things are so out of control, we have no idea who's cross ing our borders, and we can't but chase after but a few of the people," Mr Bonner told the Associated Press. "It's going to take more than a co uple of hundred agents to seal those gaps." Border Patrol agents, who last year apprehended more than 1 million i llegal aliens, estimate that they apprehend only about 20 percent of the border-crossers. Last month, former Homeland Security Deputy Secretary James Loy notified Congress that intelligence indicates that al Qaeda pl ans to exploit the nation's porous border. White House spokesman Scott McClellan yesterday said the president th inks the country can do a better job of enforcing its borders through a guest-worker program that will allow the government to go after "those w ho are coming here for the wrong reason -- whether it's terrorists or pe ople intent on criminal activity." "This will free up our Border Patrol and border agents to go after th ose who should not be coming into this country in the first place," he s aid. He also said DHS would have an announcement on this issue today. Beginning this weekend, more than 1,000 volunteers will take part in a monthlong border vigil as part of the so-called Minuteman Project. The y will focus on a 20-mile area of the San Pedro River Valley west of her e, which has become one of the nation's most active corridors for illega l aliens. The volunteers plan to patrol the border and notify the Border Patrol of the location of foreigners crossing into the United States illegally . "This is what this protest is all about, enforcing the law," said Chr is Simcox, one of the organizers of the Minuteman Project. Mr McClellan yesterday said the president "very clearly" addressed t he debate over the Minuteman Project last week when he referred to the v olunteers as vigilantes after a summit with Mexican President Vicente Fo x and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. "It's one thing if people are working along the border, simply to rep ort suspicious activity, and that activity should be reported to the pro per authorities -- the Department of Homeland Security officials, who ar e there to enforce our borders. If people are operating outside of the l aw, that cannot be tolerated," Mr McClellan said. Mr Fox and other Mexican officials have said they fear that the volu nteers will abuse the border crossers. The volunteers, who will be monitored by various civil and human righ ts organizations, have been told not to confront the aliens. Although so me of the volunteers will be armed, organizers have banned rifles and ha ve threatened to send home anyone who causes a confrontation. An additional 350 agents are scheduled to arrive by Sept. In the meantime, they said, 200 veteran agents could be assigned on a temporary basis later this spring and ear ly summer. The Minuteman protest formally begins Friday, when volunteers are exp ected to spend that day registering and receiving their assignments, alo ng with information about the area. Rallies scheduled for Saturday and S unday will kick off the monthlong project. |
| www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0317fox17.html US needs to watch extremists, Fox says Chris Hawley Republic Mexico City Bureau Mar 17, 2005 12:00 AM MEXICO CITY - Anti-immigrant sentiment appears to be growing in the Unite d States, Mexican President Vicente Fox said Wednesday, and he urged US . officials to act quickly to control movements such as the 950-member-s trong Minuteman Project on the Mexico-Arizona border. Fox said he plans to push for US immigration reform during a meeting wi th President Bush in Texas next week. He also said the two leaders, alon g with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, likely will announce a plan to expand the scope of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Mexico's National Human Rights Commission recently issued a warning about several new grass-roots movements inspired by Arizona's Proposition 200 . Other Mexican officials have cited the Minuteman Project, a plan by ac tivists to patrol the border during April, as a sign of rising extremism . advertisement "There are signs of these kinds of problems present today, and (they are) progressing," Fox said during a news conference for foreign reporters. "We have to act quickly and on time to prevent these kinds of actions." He said Mexico is watching the Minuteman Project carefully and will take action in US courts or international tribunals if any of the activists break the law. Patrols start in April "We totally reject the idea of these migrant-hunting groups," Fox said. " We will use the law, international law and even US law to make sure th at these types of groups, which are a minority . Organizers of the Minuteman Project say they have signed up more than 950 volunteers, including 30 pilots with aircraft, to patrol the border for 30 days beginning April 1 The activists say they will notify the Borde r Patrol if they see border crossers and will not confront them directly . Minuteman co-organizer Chris Simcox said participants are exercising thei r constitutional rights. "Vicente Fox can rant and rave all he wants, but he obviously doesn't und erstand what a democracy means," Simcox said. Fox said he understood Americans' concern about protecting their southern border. But he dismissed fears that terrorists have sneaked into the Un ited States through Mexico. Fox will meet with Bush and Martin next Wednesday at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, and at Bush's ranch in nearby Crawford. It's an effort to get North American cooperation back on track after the Iraq and Afghanis tan wars. Plan on Social Security Fox said he will push for action on a "guest worker" program in the Unite d States. He said that the US population is aging and will need Mexica n labor in the future and that turning millions of undocumented Mexicans into legal, taxpaying workers could help keep the Social Security syste m afloat. The three leaders likely will announce a plan aimed at further integratin g their countries' economies to compete against other trade blocs, Fox s aid. He called it a "new vision" that will not change the existing treat y It will include new border-security measures, ways to share customs dutie s, and a continentwide energy policy, he said. Other sections will focus on education, technology and the financial sectors, he said. NAFTA's critics say the 1994 trade pact has cost American manufacturing j obs while hurting Mexican farmers. But Fox said the average Mexican inco me has more than doubled, to $6,505 a year. Fox said the boom of assembly plants along the border has actually helped stop illegal border crossing by providing jobs for people who would hav e gone to the United States. "That's also part of security on the border, to have this cushion where p eople can find a job on the Mexican side," he said. |
| news.google.com/news?q=minuteman+project+vicente+fox the debate over the Minuteman Project last week when he referred to t he volunteers as vigilantes after a summit with Mexican President Vicent e Fox and Canadian ... Americas New Minutemen ChronWatch, CA - 15 hours ago ... to support the Minuteman Project, effectively defend the borders of t his nation, kick out every single illegal alien we can find, and tell Vi cente Fox what he ... Anti-immigrant Vigilantes Set to Confront Undocumented Border ... In response to the CHD gathering, Mexican President Vicente Fox has c ondemned the ... ball over the border" organizers called the Minuteman P roject a "disturbing ... Commentary: Language bid Albuquerque Tribune, NM - Mar 29, 2005 Mexican President Vicente Fox speaks some English ... impending armed vigilante Minuteman Project threatening to ... Minuteman Project mistakes nature of immigration problem East Valley Tribune, AZ - Mar 27, 2005 ... the summit meeting with President Vicente Fox of Mexico ... in referring to the Minuteman P roject as vigilantes ... Bush decries border project Washington Times, DC - Mar 23, 2005 ... private planes -- have volunteered for the Minuteman Project, beginni ng next ... yesterday's continental summit, with Mexican President Vicen te Fox and Canadian ... Vigilantes gather for Arizona round-up of illegal migrants Guardian, UK - Mar 26, 2005 ... that represents itself in the form of the Minuteman Project,' said Ar mando ... Last week George Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox discus sed immigration; Mexico's Fox Is Not Going To Force-Feed Us His Workers American Daily, OH - Mar 22, 2005 ... Those participating in the Minuteman Project insist they will abide b y the law. How dare Vicente Fox think that Americans should silently foot the bill for his ... US needs to watch extremists, Fox says Arizona Republic, AZ - Mar 17, 2005 ... Mexican President Vicente Fox said Wednesday, and he urged US officia ls to act quickly to control movements such as the 950-member-strong Min uteman Project on ... |
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