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| 5/24 |
| 2005/3/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36898 Activity:insanely high |
3/26 I think it's pretty clear the American public is being intentionally
distracted from something right now by all this bullshit. But what
is it?
\_ Maybe the fact that we haven't got any sort of contingency plan
for when oil prodcction can no longer meet the rate of increasing
consumption? Just a thought.
\_ Yer right. Michael Schiavo made a deal with Dick Cheney to pull
out the tube while the VP was busy dealing with some unexpected
tapes of Condi-Dubya "69" action.
\_ more like DeLay and Frist and all the rest have been watching
and waiting for the perfect case with which to bring this
issue to the forefront of public discourse. I'm more skeptical
about this being some kind of "cover up" ... and rather just
a way for Bush Dick et al to throw a bone to the christian
nut jobs who he's pissing off by letting them down on the
marriage amendment, etc etc.
\_ Let's bomb Iran!
\_ Massive protests in Taiwan: http://tinyurl.com/6vtmv
\_ euthansia and killing mentally handicapped people is not an
issue worth your attention, eh? Well, I hope in the future
you are put down when you get old or are mentally incapicated,
and leave no living will.
\_ Go fuck yourself.
\_ go euthansize yourself. Here's your logic, someone
is a murderer, kills a cop for example like Mumia,
give him 30 years to go through the Fed courts and
deify him as a victim. A woman is mentally incapicated
and her husband remembers she wants to die 7 years
later after receiving 1 million in money that
is deemed to be spent on recuperation but isn't,
starve her to death. I hope you and your children
embrace and enjoy the culture of death you are creating.
\_ Hi, motherfucker. So I guess you figure that once the
constitution and the rule of law have been suspended,
everything will be fine as long as your little club
happens to be in charge. Fuck you. I hope the next
federal abuse of power is you getting executed with no
trial...because that's exactly where the present abuses
of federal power are heading.
\_ the Constitution grants to right to starve the
mentaly incapacitated on the sole basis of compromised
testimony from someone who may inflicted the injury
in the first place?. That was summarized in
Federalist 12, right? This was one of most heated
points of discussion at the Constitutional Conv.,
right? Honestly, have you ever even read the
Constitution? I suspect you are ignorant of the
facts surrounding this case and are projecting your
irrational vitrol towards anyone who is not a
Communist on this poor women. It's ok to starve a
mentally incapacitated woman who has not received
due process but god forbid we disturb a few elk on
a barren tundra.
\_ I am not pp, but your argument re this poor
woman's constitutional rights are flawed.
There is something more important at stake
here than whether this woman lives/dies:
Are we a nation of laws or men?
\_ Law, but the law is not an end in and of itself.
I can't take a side in this gigantic tragic
clusterfuck of a personal and legal travesty, as
I really don't know what I would do (this sort of
reminds me of the "would you use torture even
though it violates your laws and principles if
innocent life is at stake?") but it's pretty
clear to me that, either way, some part of the
judicial and democratic processes has failed
pretty horribly. -John
\_ Laws are instituted among men so that
we may order and plan our affairs better.
Whether or not you like the result in
this case, the laws have served their
proper purpose. Simply b/c the result
is not palatable to some, is not a
reason to throw out the laws and
take an opinion poll to decide what
should be done.
BTW, the only way that you can say
the judicial process has failed is
if you think that the trial ct judge
hugely screwed up in the original
\_ As I recall there was some discussion
about various expert opinions, some video
tape that wasn't used, etc. I don't know
the specifics, honestly, but the whole
thing just reeks of "fuckup". -John
\_ Actually, the stuff that the
media is making a big deal
about (experts, video,
hearsay, &c.) are things
that frequently get messed
up at trial but are generally
not grounds for a new trial.
proceedings. This is not likely
given that the record has now been
reviewed by the FL Appellate Ct,
the FL Supreme Ct, a FL Fed Dist Ct,
and the 11th Cir Ct of Appeals.
I somewhat agree that the democratic
process has failed, b/c congress
clearly overstepped its bounds.
Yes the constitution does not grant the
right to starve a mentally incapacitated
woman. However, the constitution does
limit the power of the fed gov/judiciary
(see Art. 3 Sec 2).
This is a dispute about whether her husband
or her parents have the right to decided
when to end her life. The dispute is
governed by state law.
In creating original jx for a particular
fed ct to rehear her claim from scratch
congress has extended the power of the
fed cts beyond what the constitution
allows: the fed cts cannot hear state law
claims w/o diversity, which does not exist
here. [Yes Art 3 allows congress to enact
legislation that delineates the powers of
the fed cts, but that power must be w/in
the limits set by Sec 2.]
WRT 14th amd due process claims, due process
means that her rights are adjudicated in
ct w/o being subject to material errors.
In this case there is no evid that the cts
of FL have screwed up and have violated any
state or fed statutory or constitutional
right this woman has. Thus due process
has not been violated.
WRT 8th amd cruel and unusual punishment,
this is not applicable to her case.
Re ANWR, I have no opinion. Drilling may
be a good short term soln, but long term
soln are needed as well.
\_ As long as you and yours are first in line, we will.
\_ The "facts" your screed is based on are lies and half truths.
You need to educate yourself before spreading this
propaganda further. What is your purpose in doing this?
\_ As a resident of FL, that poor lady is subject to the
laws of FL. Her rights have been properly adjudicated
under that law. There is no reason for me or for the
feds to get involved in what is essentially a private
matter covered under state law.
\_ Can they move her to another state or country? Will
her rights then change?
\_ If she was in a different forum, her rights may
be different (state law/constitution can give
you all sorts of rights beyond what the fed
versions do, same goes for foreign countries).
One of the compromises that we make in order to
live in a given part of the world is that we are
sub to the laws of that part of the world.
\_ Could she be moved? Who determines that?
\_ Her primary caregiver.
\_ Your whole line of argument is based on a bunch of outrighT
lies and misinformation. Either you are deliberately
misinforming people or you are passing on falsehoods.
You need to educate yourself before spreading this
propaganda further.
\_ Tom DeLay is a disgusting hypocrite. What a surprise:
http://csua.org/u/bi5 (LA Times)
\_ The cases aren't even remotely similar. If Terri had been on the
same equipment as DeLay's father, there wouldn't be an outcry.
Terri's "life support" consists of food and water. Can we
disconnect your life support too? -emarkp
\_ Unlike Terri, I feed myself and drink on my own.
\_ So Christopher Reeve should have been put down? How about
infants? -emarkp
\_ you're very good at coming up with new red herrings.
-tom
\_ ANWR just got opened up. Bankruptcy bill just got passed, making
it safe for CEOs to continue running companies into the ground. |
| 5/24 |
|
| tinyurl.com/6vtmv -> news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050326/wl_nm/taiwan_china_dc_1 World - Reuters By Alice Hung TAIPEI (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of people chanting "Oppose war, Love Taiwan" joined President Chen Shui-bian Saturday to protest against China's anti-secession law that sanctions the use of force against the island. Slideshow: China-Taiwan Relations Chen's ruling Democratic Progressive Party hopes the protest will draw in ternational attention to the new law and put pressure on China to scrap it. Organizers said 1 million people joined the show of people power against Beijing's military threat, but Taipei police estimated the crowd at just over 240,000. "I am here to protest against a barbaric China which looks down upon the Taiwanese people," said 70-year-old businessman Fan Wen-yi, adding he wa s not affiliated to any political party and had never participated in a protest before. "The anti-secession law, simply put, is a law that autho rizes war." The protestors chanted slogans and waved green flags that read "democracy , peace, protect Taiwan" as they marched toward the presidential office from 10 locations around the capital, symbolizing the 10 clauses of the anti-secession law. Many brought their children and pets to the "democratic carnival." Scores of children bared bottoms plastered with anti-missile stickers, while a handful of angry protesters set fire to red Chinese flags. President Chen and his family, surrounded by 500 security guards, joined the marchers. Holding two green inflated green batons, Chen joined the c rowd in singing songs in the Taiwanese dialect. The rally dispersed peacefully after a giant red balloon in the shape of a sea-urchin, symbolizing Chinese missile threats, was deflated. INTERNATIONAL ORPHAN The anti-secession bill approved by China's parliament on March 14 is a b id to deter Chen from pushing for a formal split from China before the e nd of his term in 2008. The law codified Beijing's longstanding threat to attack Taiwan, authoriz ing the use of non-peaceful measures against the democratically ruled is land if it pushes for formal statehood. If we don't stand up and fight, no-one will fight for us," said 23-year-old student Jonathan Lin. If they invade , I am willing to fight to the last moment." China has claimed sovereignty over Taiwan since the Chinese Nationalists fled there at the end of a civil war in 1949. The Nationalist Party, whi ch favors a more conciliatory stance toward Beijing, shunned the protest . "China has never ruled Taiwan, not even for one day, yet they treat us as part of their territory," Huang Ming-yu, who took his wife and 2-year-o ld daughter to join the rally after a nearly 10 hour bus ride from the s outhern county of Pingtung. The United States has criticized the anti-secession law, calling its pass age unfortunate and a potential setback to cross-Strait relations. Washi ngton has urged the arch-rivals to resume fence-mending talks, stalled s ince 1999. China's state media quoted Chinese academics as saying the march could ra ise tensions and sour ties. "The secessionist forces plot to stir up public sentiments to embolden th emselves. Such moves are doomed to meet failure," Huang Jiashu, an exper t on Taiwan from the People's University, said in an interview with Chin a's official Xinhua news agency. An influential Taiwan businessman who had supported Chen's presidential b id in 2000, warned that Taiwan independence could lead to war. "I believe Taiwan's economic development can't be separated from the main land. Taiwan independence will only lead Taiwan to war and drag the peop le to disaster," Hsu Wen-long, the founder of Taiwan's Chi Mei group, sa id in his letter Saturday. Republication or r edistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the pri or written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any error s or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon . |
| csua.org/u/bi5 -> www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-delay27mar27,0,5710023.story?coll=la-home-headlines and Sam Howe Verhovek, Times Staff Writer CANYON LAKE, Texas A family tragedy unfolding in a Texas hospital durin g the fall of 1988 was a private ordeal -- without judges, emergency ses sions of Congress or the raging debate outside Terri Schiavo's Florida h ospice. The patient then was a 65-year-old drilling contractor, badly injured in a freak accident at his home. Among the family standing vigil at Brooke Army Medical Center was a grieving junior congressman -- US Rep. Click Here advertisement More than 16 years ago, far from the political passions that have defined the Schiavo controversy, the DeLay family endured its own wrenching end -of-life crisis. The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and a ventilator, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay. Then, freshly re-elected to a third term in the House, DeLay waited all b ut helpless for the verdict of doctors. He pushed emergency legislation through congress to shift the leg al case from Florida state courts to the federal judiciary. And he is among the strongest advocates of keeping the woman, who doctors say has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, connected t o her feeding tube. DeLay has denounced Schiavo's husband, as well as ju dges, for committing what he calls "an act of barbarism" in removing the tube. In 1988, however, there was no such fiery rhetoric as the congressman qui etly joined the sad family consensus to let his father die. "There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the c ongressman's 81-year-old mother, recalled in an interview last week. "Th ere was no way he (Charles) wanted to live like that. Tom knew, we all k new, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way." Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congre ssman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay. When the man's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connectin g him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life wer e not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the fa mily's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do Not Resus citate." " "The situation faced by the congressman's family was entirely different t han Terri Schiavo's," said a spokesman for DeLay, who declined requests for an interview. "The only thing keeping her alive is the food and water we all need to su rvive. His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him, " said Dan Allen, DeLay's news aide. There were also these similarities: Both stricken patients were severely brain damaged. Both were incapable of surviving without continuing medic al assistance. Both were said to have expressed a desire to be spared li fe sustained by machine. This previously unpublished account of the majority leader's personal bru sh with life-ending decisions was assembled from court files, medical re cords and interviews with family members. It was a pleasant late afternoon in the Hill Country of Texas on Nov. At the home of Charles and Maxine DeLay, set on a limestone bluff of ceda rs and live oaks above Turkey Cove, it also was a moment of triumph. Charles and his brother, Jerry DeLay, two avid tinkerers, had just finish ed work on a new backyard tram -- an elevator-like device to carry passe ngers from the house down a 200-foot slope to the blue-green waters of C anyon Lake. Within seconds a horrific screeching noise echoed across the still lake, "a sickening sound," said a neighbor. Maxine, seated up front in the four-passenger trolley, said her husband r epeatedly tried to engage the emergency brake but the rail car kept pick ing up speed. Halfway down the bank it was free-wheeling, according to a ccident investigators. Moments later, it jumped the track and slammed into a tree, scattering pa ssengers and twisted debris in all directions. "It was awful, just awful," recalled Karl Braddick, now 86, the DeLays' n eighbor at the time and a family friend. Rescue workers had trouble bringing injured victims up the steep terrain. Jerry's wife, JoAnne, suffered broken bon es and a shattered elbow. Charles, hurled head-first into a tree, clearl y was in serious condition. "He was all but gone," said Braddick, gesturing at the spot of the accide nt as he offered a visitor a ride down to the lake in his own tram. "He would have been better off if he'd died right there and then." In the ambulance on his way to the New Braunfe ls hospital 15 miles away, he tried to speak. it was mainly just cuss words," recalled Max ine with a faint, fond smile. His grave condition dictated a short stay at the local hospital. Four hou rs later, he was airlifted by helicopter to the medical center at Fort S am Houston. Admission records show he arrived with multiple injuries, in cluding broken ribs and a brain hemorrhage. Tom DeLay flew to his father's bedside where, along with his two brothers and a sister, they joined Maxine. In the weeks that followed, the congr essman made repeated trips back from Washington, DC, his family said. Oh, it was terrible f or everyone," said Alvina (Vi) Skogen, a former sister-in-law of the con gressman. Neighbor Braddick visited the hospital and said it seemed very clear to everyone there was little prospect of recovery. "He had no consciousness that I could see," Braddick said. "He did a bit of moaning and groaning, I guess, but you could see there was no way he was coming back." Maxine DeLay agreed that she was never aware of any consciousness on her husband's part during the long days of her bedside vigil -- with one pos sible exception. "Whenever Randy walked into the room, his heart, his pulse rate would go up a little bit," she said of their son, Randall, the congressman's youn ger brother, who lives near Houston. Over a period of days, doctors conducted a series of tests, including sca ns of his head, face, neck and abdomen. They checked for lung damage, pe rforming a bronchoscopy and later a tracheotomy to assist his breathing. But the procedures could not prevent steady deterioration. Then, infections complicated the senior DeLay's fight for life. The family and physicians confronted the dread ed choice so many other Americans have faced: to make heroic efforts, or to let the end come. "Daddy did not want to be a vegetable," said Skogen, one of his daughters -in-law at the time. The preliminary decision to withhold dialysis and other treatments fell t o Maxine along with Randall and her daughter Tena -- and, his mother, sa id, "Tom went along." Jerry DeLay "felt terribly about the accident," said his wife, JoAnne DeL ay. "He prayed that if (Charles) couldn't have quality of life that God would take him -- and that is exactly what He did." Charles Ray DeLay died at 3:17 am, according to his death certificate, 27 days after plummeting down the hillside. In 1990 the DeLays filed suit against Midcap Bearing Corporation of San A ntonio and Lovejoy Inc. of Illinois, the distributor and maker of a coup ling that they said failed and caused the tram to hurtle out of control down the steep bank. The family's wrongful death lawsuit accused the companies of negligence a nd sought actual and punitive damages. Lawyers for the companies denied the allegations and countersued the surviving designer of the tram syste m, Jerry DeLay. The case thrust Congressman DeLay into decidedly unfamiliar territory -- the list of plaintiffs on the front page of a civil complaint. He is an outspoken defender of business against what he calls the crippling effec ts of "predatory, self-serving litigation." The DeLay family litigation sought unspecified compensation for, among ot her things, the dead father's "physical pain and suffering, mental angui sh and trauma," and the mother's grief, sorrow and loss of companionship . Their lawsuit also alleged violations of the Texas product liability law. The DeLay case moved slowly through the Texas judicial system, accumulati ng more than 500 pages of motions, affidavits and disclosures over nearl y three years. Among the affidavits was one filed by the congressman, bu t family members said he had little direct involvement in the lawsuit, l eaving that to his attorney brother, Randall. DeLa... |