3/8     Kinda funny how this horrid bankruptcy bill, that was essentially
        written by the credit card industry, is going to pass without almost
        a single mention in the press.
        \_ hey, can we get a similar corporate bankruptcy bill, which says
           that board member's assets are seized to pay off employees and
           shareholders in the case of chapter 11?  -tom
        \_ Can you give specifics on this bill? I tend to think that a tougher
           bankruptcy bill will have people thinking twice before going into
           debt. I think that Americans as a whole are too dependent upon
           debt anyway, and declaring bankruptcy has never been easier.
           If the bill makes it more difficult and puts a greater stigma
           associated with going into bankruptcy it may result in more
           careful spending.
           \_ It implement a means test for who can file for chapter 7.  It
              also allows for trusts to hide assets.  If you're not super
              wealthy (i.e. can afford to set up a trust), you could very well
              be forced to spend the rest of your life repaying debt rather
              than getting the clean slate that is your constitutional right.
           \_ You're an imbecile if you think people don't "think twice"
              before going into bankruptcy. "Has never been easier"?  How
              do you figure?  This bill treats "abusers" the same as someone
              who goes under because of medical bills.  More than 90% of
              filings are because of medical costs, job loss, or divorce.
              What will you think about ease of filing when 1 or more of
              these event happen to you?
              It allows loopholes like Asset Protection Trusts (great for
              joe q. moneybags.  not so good for you or me).  This is a
              boon to credit card companies and gives you or me no recourse
              in the event of emergency to protect ourselves financially.
              \_ Uhm, no. You're a moron if you think it's really difficult
                 to go Chapter 7, it's not. If it was you wouldn't see a
                 360% INCREASE in 16 years.
                 Anyway, if people actually SAVED their money
                 instead of carrying large credit card debts they wouldn't
                 have to declare bankruptcy when they lose their jobs.
                 I know plenty of people who go through divorces who don't
                 have to go through personal bankruptcy. The Medical Bills
                 is also a red herring. Many institutions will grant waivers
                 for medical bill debt if the person is indeed needy.
                 Let's face it, America has become a nation of constant debtors,
                 the average credit card balance is $7000, people are buying
                 overpriced homes with 30 year APRs. The whole thing is
                 out of hand, and personal savings is at a near all-time low.
                 We didn't have this problem a generation or two ago. It was
                 because people back then had this concept of not living
                 beyond your means, of not incurring more debt than assets.
                 Other countries, most notably Japan, have exceedingly high
                 savings rates. In most asian cultures it is deemed a great
                 shame to go into bankruptcy, which is why Asians are some
                 of the best savers around. People are living longer these
                 days, they earn more, and enjoy a higher standard of living
                 than ever before. They should learn to plan financially as
                 a result, and begin taking responsibility for their assets.
                 Why you got into debt actually should be somewhat immaterial.
                 Are lenders supposed to lose their shirts because of
                 unfortunate circumstances? Well, then, human nature will
                 dictate that EVERYONE will claim unfortunate circumstances.
                 Aruing about a bill that makes it more difficult for people
                 to avoid paying back their debt isn't the real issue. The
                 real isssue is getting consumers to honor their committments
                 and avoid debt in the first place. I bet you've never been
                 owed money. Well I have, and it's not fun to go after people.
                 It's even less fun when deadbeats get away without paying
                 you back for resources they've consumed.  Dead beats will
                 give you every excuse under the sun to get out of debt,
                 like their grandparents died, their cat died, etc.
                 To hell with the system of excuses, I say, and let's
                 make people responsible for debts they incur.
        \_ OWNERSHIP SOCIETY!
        \_ There were big articles in the LA Times, Post, and maybe the NY
           Times.  Is it really passing?
           \_ Check your cspan
              \_ Yeah, I did.  Closer to passage in the Senate, after
                 votes to limit debate and to remove a poison pill amendment
                 on abortion (that killed the bill the last time, when
                 the Dems had 4 more Senators, and yes, the margin this
                 time was within 4 x 2 = 8 votes).
                 I guess people will be voting party line?
                 \_ Likely.  Shame on the dems who voted for cloture
        \_ Do you think the Dems are going to counterattack?  I think Dubya
           will say it allows rich people to declare bankruptcy, cheating the
           system, but I think the Dem attack wins ("... a bill written and
           funded by credit card companies ...").
           IMO, this is fish in a barrel.  They're probably wondering whether
           it's a set-up, and now I am, too.
           \_ I'm trying to figure out just what they're trying to save their
              non-existent political capital for.  This is one they should have
              filibustered.  This was bad.
              \_ Not to disagree with you, but perhaps they think it's a red
                 herring which would distract from the social security debate.