2/23    So why do people seem so uncomfortable about answering questions
        that seem to come from coursework?  Is it about making students
        suffer, or because of an assumption that they'll learn more by
        doing it the hard way?  The question below is something I hazily
        remember and it's something I'd like to know, just to stay sharp.
        I think NOT answering it, as tends to happen, might send the wrong
        message to student members.
        \_ Well, the question below is different from actual homework problems.
           I am sure you can see the problem with doing someone's homework
           for them. -- ilyas
        \_ Remember your Physics professor/TA telling you that you learn by
           doing and getting stuck with the problem, not by getting spoon-fed
           the answer?  That wasn't all baloney.
           As for soda, the ideal responses are hints and things of that sort,
           although many responses are not always ideal (in particular, the
           ones that end with, "Lazy bitch.")
           \_ Amusingly enough, I seemed to have been the only poster that
              actually solved the problem, and gave an actually useful
              hint (splitting the array into 3 sums).  But I am sure all
              your bitching about me telling off the lazy undergrad bitch
              is far more ideal. -- ilyas
              \_ Are you talking about the contiguous int's in an array?  My
                 CS170 book (Udi Manber) gave a solution using two sums, not 3.
                 \_ Heh, you can think of it as either 2 sums or 3 (the third
                    sum is what's left). -- ilyas
        \_ Asking anyone outside of the class can be considered cheating in
           some classes/professors these days.
           \_ Why do you say this?  I've only heard something this strict for
              take-home midterms/finals; homework seems to be > 90% "as
              long as you don't copy".
              \_ In all the classes I have ever TAed, the understanding is that
                 you do the homework yourself. -- ilyas
                 \_ You're a unionized state employee.  Awesome.
                 \_ By "the understanding is", do you mean the TA or professor
                    says "You should do the homework by yourself", or do
                    you mean they say, "You are not permitted to ask someone
                    else for help.  For this course, it is considered
                    cheating."?
                    \_ I consider the latter the legal codification of the
                       former, and in practice, I consider them equivalent from
                       the 'what you should morally do' point of view.
                       Certainly I would feel entitled to call anyone in
                       violation of either 'lazy bitch.' -- ilyas
                       \_ But you know it can't be policed. So I think if this
                          policy is in place then the grade should not depend
                          on the correctness of the homework.
                          \_ You can't perfectly police takehome finals
                             either.  Or GREs (if the perpetrator is clever).
                             Or speed limit laws.  Or anything, really.  What's
                             your point? -- ilyas
                             \_ So have you given up on your "thread order
                                enforcement"?  I see you're active today,
                                but I also see threads being selectively
                                deleted "out of order".  -meyers
                                \_ I ll retaliate if some thread I care about
                                   disappears 'prematurely.'  You can do all
                                   the other ones, Robby. -- ilyas
                             \_ Those other things are a lot better policed.
                                I dunno, I'm not in school anymore. But I think
                                the point of homework is to learn, and
                                discussing the problem with others can help.
                                \_ I agree that discussing can help, especially
                                   for math proofs.  But motd is a bit of a
                                   one-sided discussion. -- ilyas
                                   \_ What do you mean by "motd is a bit of
                                      a one-sided discussion"?
                                      \_ When someone asks for homework help
                                         on the motd, it's not a real
                                         discussion.  It's one party fishing
                                         for clues while contributing nothing,
                                         really.  'Discussion' for these
                                         things has to be face to face, imo.
                                         Also, it's a little annoying because I
                                         have never ever seen anyone admit
                                         upfront they are asking for homework
                                         help on the motd.  It's always 'hey,
                                         here's a neat problem!'  That already
                                         seems dishonest from the start.
                                           -- ilyas
                                         \_ I would say the majority of users
                                            have problems with students asking
                                            the Internet at-large to do their
                                            homework.
                                            The same majority also feels it is
                                            dishonest for students to pretend
                                            not to be students.
                                            There is no disagreement there.
                       \_ Hey ilyas, can we call you an "uptight dickhead?"
                       \_ The difference between the two is obvious.
                          Lazy bitch.
                ilyas, it's good that you're concerned about cheating. -/
                Luckily, most HW assignments are less than 5-10% of
                the total grade, and in the case of most grad schools,
                they're worth nothing.
                they're worth nothing. My take is this. If students want
                to cheat on the HW, let them cheat! When they take the exam,
                their grades will reflect their lack of efforts they've
                put into their study anyways.