9/16    No, it is not "punishment from God".  However, it is important
        for Christians to examine why the attack happened.  Yes, we
        should destroy the terrorist networks.  However, this is not
        a long term solution because these networks will spring up again
        if the underlying resentment and hatred are not reconciled.
        We have to ask ourselves if our middle-eastern policies are in
        accordance to the teachings of our Lord.  Have we been pursuing
        material well-being, in the form of a cheap oil supply, at the
        expense of the well-being of others?  Have we been sacrificing
        justice and doing what's right for the sake of our self-interests?
        Have we placed our trust in our military might instead of in the
        Lord?  Have we been mis-using our military might?  In our safety
        and abundance, have we become indifferent to the sufferings of
        others?  Have we been worshipping Mammon, the god of money, and
        Bel, the god of war, instead of our Lord?
        \_ What if there is no God? What if all the lives spent in
           persuit of holier-than-thou-because-my-God-is-better
           could have instead lived their own lives? Nothing
           Absolutly nothing has cost more lives in the
           history of humankind than organized religion.
                                     \- i dont think islam today is
                                     particularly well organized. what
                                     do you mean by "organized relig" --psb
                                     \- this is a cliche somewhere between
                                     "the love of money is the root of all
                                     evil" and "capitalism causes imperialism".
                                     btw, people should start saying "evil"
                                     like alec guiness rather than the american
                                     "eevul" ... "ee-ville". --psb
           \_ Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Caligula?
              What were their faith?
                \_ Hitler was insane. Good point on Stalin and Mao:
                   Marxism is rising in the ultimate body count.
              \_ yeah and the inquisition was what? a census count?
                 \_ Don't forget the crusades. Just your friendly
                    Christian tourists on holiday from europe.
                    \_ My point is, do not unthinkingly put the blame on
                       "organized religion" when the cause is our selfish,
                       corrupted human nature.
                       "organized religion" when the cause may be our
                       own selfish, corrupted human nature.
                       \_ Maybe the cause is our corrupt and unthinkingly
                          internalized force-fed social and moral structure.
                          Perhaps we should re-examine the core tenets of
                          Judeo-Christian thought and the easy tendency for
                          too many adherents to blindly accept what is fed to
                          them on some absurd notion of "Faith".  Religion is
                          a crutch for the weak-minded.
                          \_ An easy and "smart" out for atheists.
                             Consider all the universal constants that are
                             somehow just right for the universe to exist,
                             talk to an astrophysicist, and ask him/her
                             how much tolerance there is in those numbers.
                             Whether you believe in the big bang or not,
                             there are evidence in the universe that
                             point towards that it was DESIGNED by someone.
                          \_ Why don't we start listing all the weak-minded
                             individuals who believe in the Lord, starting
                             with Abraham Lincoln, .....
                             individuals who have faith in the Lord.  Let's
                             start with Abraham Lincoln, ...
                             \_ As it happens actually, I'm not an atheist.
                                I'm catholic.  But I really depise when idiots
                                armed with empty platitudes attempt to
                                sanctimoniously proselytize people to their
                                rediculous blindly accepting POV.  If even
                                a quarter of the people out there actually
                                THOUGHT about the structure of the relgion
                                they ascribed to or the organization that
                                has indoctrinized them, our world would be
                                about 10 times better off than it is.  Sadly,
                                "Faith" has become a cheap, drive through
                                substitute for understanding and intellectual
                                exploration.  Why consider the ramifications
                                or relevancy of my moral structure when I can
                                just mainline "Faith" in the "Plan" of the
                                divine creator?  I can't belIEVE that I'm
                                wasting my time with this.  Be happy in your
                                self-imposed blindess man.  Personally, I'm
                                not going to be complacent and just accept
                                whatever the current fad is as the Word of God.
                             \_ bs.  I'd believe constants were "designed" if
                                pi were exactly 3, but otherwise it's
                                coincidence.
                          \_ Why don't we start listing all the weak-minded
                             individuals who have faith in the Lord.  Let's
                             start with Abraham Lincoln, ...
           \_ IMAGINE all the PEOPLEEEE . . . LIVING for TODAYYYYYYY . . .
        \_ Praise God! May *all* of us be counted worthy. -allenp
        \_ This is mild, coming from the God of the Old Testament.  If he
           really exists, this isn't enough pain and death to serve His
           needs.