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| 5/18 |
| 2005/2/15 [Reference/Religion] UID:36181 Activity:high |
2/15 So, I am really curious to see some Christian responses to this
question, emarkp, jrkleek? Do you actually believe men who can,
to put it bluntly, only get erections from other men exist? As in,
they don't remember ever being attracted to women since puberty?
If you believe such men exist, what is their theological status?
Are they sinners? Conversely, if you don't believe such men exist,
why not? -- ilyas
\_ uh oh, expect Republicans to censor this in about 5 minutes
\_ I'm sure that there are men who "don't remember ever being attracted
to women since puberty". The other claim is stronger and would
require longer discussion. Send me email if you're interested in
that conversation. As for theology, all sexual relations outside of
the bonds of marriage are sin (and serious sin at that). Those who
are tempted but don't act on it are under no condemnation. -emarkp
\_ So as long as you just _covet_ your neighbor's wife but don't
act on it, you're cool? Good to know. Thanks, emarkp!
\_ Could you please remind your audience exactly how long ago your
religion decided that black people are not an inferior race?
It was in the 80's, right? The *ninteen* eighties.
\_ When did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
\_ I'd say this was aaron, but he still hasn't logged in.
That means we have ANOTHER clueless anti-mormon troll!
Alright!
\_ Answer the fucking question.
\_ Well, since the question is loaded chock full of
false infomation, it's impossible to answer as
is. I would have to answer the question you should
have asked. Would you like me to do so?
\_ See, I've read enough of John Krakauers work to have
an opinion of his level of honesty and I've read
enough of your posts to have an opinion about yours.
I'll take his word for this over yours. So I assume
you're going to claim that the LDS curch never
claimed that black people are inferior?
\_ The skim I did of Krakauer gave me the impression
that his book was mostly about splinter groups,
not the LDS church. But seeing his comments in
interviews made it clear he wasn't terribly
concerned with accuracy. -emarkp
\_ The church officially? No.
\_ Well, I simply am not willing to take your
word for it. I'm going to go look up the
references from Under the Banner of Heaven
tonight and I'll give you a chance to refute
those if you can later.
\_ Heck, post the references themselves.
I can at least tell you which ones
would be considered official.
\_ Ok, fine. Later. I have to actually
do some work.
\_ Here's a quote from Joseph Smith in 1842:
"Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. I replied,
they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change
their situation with the whites, and they would be like them.
They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into
Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides
in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the
powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability.
The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high
places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those
they brush and wait on."
-emarkp
\_ Ok, fine, so maybe the founder was not a racist. That
doesn't mean the official church wasn't. I don't think
Jesus himself would have approved of most of the evil
bullshit his followers have done for the last 2000 years
either, but that does not excuse the christian church
for said evil.
\_ The question you posed begged the question. Those who
feld that blacks were inferior left in 1978 (and good
riddance). There is a complex history around the policy
you're talking about, and it's not easily covered on the
motd. -emarkp
\_ http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon107.html
-tom
\_ Ummm... I'm not sure what you're getting at.
\_ I'm merely providing context. The quotes by
Brigham Young are interesting. -tom
\_ Especially the ellipsis. Note the quote in the
article is: "any man having one drop of the seed of
Cain" could not gain priesthood. The full quote
is: "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in
him cannot receive the priesthood; but the day will
come when all that race will be redeemed and
possess all the blessings which we now have. I am
opposed to the present system of slavery"
-emarkp
\_ So it sounds like the early mormons were actually
progressive for their day. To bad you have now
chosen to be on the wrong side of today's biggest
civil rights issue. It doesn't sound to me like
the founders of your religion would aprove of
your bigotry.
\_ Hi troll!
\_ I'm glad you feel that you feel I'm on the
wrong side. Have you talked to Blacks who
take issue with your comparison? -emarkp
\_ where in the bible does it say pre-marital sex is a sin?
\_ Never read the bible, huh? First one on a search:
Matt 15:19
\_ It says "sexual immorality" not "pre-marital sex".
\_ Hint: it wasn't written in English. In the Textus
Receptus it's 'porneia' which is uniformly translated as
'fornication' in the KJV. I don't have my Nestle
intralinear with me so I don't know how Westcott
rendered it. -emarkp
intralinear with me so I don't know how other critical
editions rendered it. -emarkp
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4202
\_ The King James version says "fornication" which is
defined as sex between people who are not married.
\_ I'm LDS so I don't limit my answers to the Bible. -emarkp |
| 5/18 |
|
| www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon107.html Some blacks say Mormon Church must address racism Associated Press/June 6, 2003 By Debbie Hummel Salt Lake City -- Mormon church leaders describe what happened 25 years a go as a shared, simultaneous revelation from God. While gathered inside the faith's Salt Lake City Temple, the officials sa id God revealed that they should allow black men to become members of th e Mormon priesthood, reversing more than a century of church practice. Some black Mormons in A merica, however, feel the church doesn't do enough to encourage black me mbership, or speak out against past racism. Tamu Smith, a black member of the church in Provo, said church leaders re main concerned about how some white Mormons might respond. Mormon officials have ''spoken directly to certain issues in the past, th ey speak directly about homosexuality, adultery, pornography . They have not spoken directly against prejudice and racism,'' she said. Mormons believe their president -- the leader of the First Presidency -- is a ''living prophet'' who rules by direct divine revelation, so the bl ack priesthood ban must be seen as God's will or else the divine prophet s from the mid-19th century until 1978 were grievously mistaken. The Mormon priesthood does not refer to a set of trained clerics -- rathe r, it is a lay status that virtually all Mormon boys enter at 12 and a p rerequisite for even the most mundane church responsibilities. The first black man to hold the priesthood, Elijah Abel, was ordained in 1836 by church president and founder Joseph Smith. However, what happene d between the days of Smith, who also spoke out against slavery decades before the Civil War, and 1978 is a matter of debate. Baptism and membership in the church have always been open to all. But st arting in roughly the late 1840s, black males were denied the priesthood ''for reasons that we believe are known to God,'' church spokesman Dale Bills said. Bringhurst, who was raised Mormon but has since left the faith, attribute s the ban to remarks made by Brigham Young, the church's president after Smith was assassinated in Nauvoo, Ill. Young once said that blacks were the children of Cain who settled in Africa, and ''any man having one dr op of the seed of Cain'' could not gain priesthood. A century later, the ban came under increasing scrutiny during the civil rights era. Still, Bringhurst said the church's international expansion more likely prompted its review of black priesthood. But Natalie Sheppard, a black American who joined the church 20 years ago , said she feels the church has never done a good job of encouraging bla ck membership. When she moved from Ohio to a Salt Lake City suburb, ''I experienced the rudest awakening of my life,'' Sheppard said. She recalled storming into church headquarters and demanding to speak to Mormon leaders on a cold day in 1982 when her 6-year-old son -- waiting for her to pick him up -- was made to stand outside the home of another church member because he was black. On Sunday, the actual anniversary, singer Gladys Knight -- one of the chu rch's best-known black converts -- will conduct the Saints Unified Voice s, a 110-person multiracial choir. |
| www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4202 Parts of Speech TDNT Noun Feminine 6:579,918 Definition 1 illicit sexual intercourse a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. the worship of idols a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols Translated Words KJV (26) - fornication, 26; Show me more Abbreviations Legend: TDNT - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament; Copyright Statement The New Testament Greek Lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dicti onary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theologica l Dictionary of the New Testament." NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dic tionaries. |