1/30    When Germany fell and the US/European/Russia took over, how long
        did they occupy Germany? How long did loyal Nazi youngs and
        insurgents attack the Americans and Russians? How long were
        E/W Germany occupied before each had setup their own
        governments? I'm curious because perhaps we could draw some
        parallels and make better guesses as to how much longer the
        insurgents will continue before they gave up, and how much
        longer our troops will be in Iraq.
        \_ Very good questions. I read about the situation in France in 1945,
           and it was pretty bad.  There was a frenzy of revenge killings of
           'collaborators.'  No courts, or anything.  It was allowed to
           continue for a while too, because it was felt that the people
           needed to 'vent.'  So many unsavory things happened in WWII.
           Maybe time reduces the perceived magnitude of things -- all the
           crap back then was much much bigger than anything today,
           Iraq included.  -- ilyas
           \_ tell us about the Russian Jews!
        \_ Not many insurgents in Germany--they just kind of fell apart, and
           Their sense of order (unlike some places, they're a reasonably
           civilized country aside from the occasional 6-million-worth slipup)
           kept them in line.  Plus they were probably right sick of getting
           blown up by 1000-bomber fleets and hordes of very angry Russians.
           There were some SS plans for and attempts at guerilla gangs (look
           up "werewolves") but all in all nothing came of it.  Occupation
           lasted until present, and they were allowed to have an army again
           around 1954.  The Bundesrepublik itself was set up around 1948, so
           the whole Iraq election would seem to support that pattern.  -John
           \_ present=2004. 2004-1945=59 years. You're guessing that we'll be
              in Iraq for at least 59 years? Hm. Also a lot of good things
              came out from Germany occupation, like getting the best
              scientists. What good things will come out from occupying Iraq?
              In my opinion I don't think Iraq and Germany have much in common
                \_ Try 100+ Billions of barrels of oil, which we cannot live
                   without.
              \_ It would not surprise me.  The western Allies stayed in .de
                 initially to prevent it from arising again, and later because
                 they were facing off against the Soviets.  Scientists, NATO,
                 trying to build a strong democratic partner and establishing
                 permanent bases were just facets of an overall strategy of
                 presence--the US has not been at war with a democratic nation
                 during this century (barring some questionable interference
                 in other countries' domestic politics) so it makes sense to
                 (a) try to build democracies, and (b) stay there to make sure
                 they remain democratic--your ideal result will be an ally
                 which doesn't attack you.  Now take a look at a world map and,
                 forgetting for a moment about whether it's right or wrong,
                 try to convince me in light of current strategic alignments
                 that it doesn't make sense for the US to hang around Iraq for
                 some time.  -John
        \_ Germany was broken by 1945, not like Iraq, where the army just
           melted away to fight as insurgents.  Also, Germany did not have
           1 billion muslim sympathizers supporting them.  Also the Germans
           under the Red Army's occupation were just scared to death, with
           the Red Army's reputation for brutality and mass rape, while
           Germans under Allied occupation were just glad they weren't under
           the Russians, so why make trouble.
        \_ The most important difference: Iraqis didn't kill millions of
           Americans. Heck, they didn't even start the war.
           \_ Uh, overall US casualties in WWII (both theaters) were around
              400k dead.  -John
        \_ Germans weren't relgious extremists either.
           \_ THe people weren't but you cant' say the same thing about
              the leadership. The cult of Nazism was very strong. Look
              at the runes next time you see propaganda film from that era.