1/26    How does SS in the US compare with other countries, like Japan,
        Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, etc?
        \_ What you have as IRAs and other voluntary contributions is
           mandatory in a lot of other countries.  Example:  We pay a base
           equivalent to SS (in .ch) and a second amount derived from the 1st
           into a privately run (but still mandatory, with interest rates set
           by the govt) account.  There is much less flexibility for other,
           voluntary contributions (including tax benefits.)  Similar in
           Germany, etc.  The difference?  We'll be fucked much later than the
           US, but it'll happen (European & Japanese populations are getting
           much older and will rely on massive immigration to sustain us in
           our dotage.)  Also, when it does, the gefuckt-ness will be more
           widespread, due to the fact that the US appears to have a greater
           percentage of the population saving into private retirement funds
           as opposed to being taught to rely on a government "bank".  Many
           Europeans, at least, are only now coming around to the fact that
           their retirement pensions are illusive--made all the more bitter by
           the fact that the tax rate in EU countries is criminally high (this
           is a _bit_ better in .ch as our taxes are lower.)  So essentially,
           same problem, different format.  -John
           \_ In Japan at least, another major problem is corruption: in a
              recent scandal, it turned out that the people running the
              pension accounts were living large on loans they'd approved
              for themselves from the pension money. --erikred
           \_ The Chilean experience has not been so good:
              link:csua.org/u/ave (nytimes blahblahfoo:biteme)
        \_ How about China? I don't think SS exists, they just shift the
           problem to the family. So in essense, they don't have any problem.
           \_ I read somewhere that China has a huge pension liability problem.
           \_ "Death solves all problems; No man, no problem." -- Stalin
              \_ Go fuck yourself.
              \_ Somehow this reminds me of Bush...
                \_ your liberal brain has been classified as-- small.
                \_ The death of one Iraqi is a tragedy. The death of
                   100,000 is a statistic.
                   \_ Wow, your big brain tells you only 1 Iraqi died?
                      Really, you need to go fuck yourself.
                      \_ You are living proof that anti-war people can
                         be just as arrogant and clueless as the Cons
                         on the motd. For this, I salute you! -motdtl
                         \_ What about the millions of Native
                            Americans you killed huh? What smart ass
                            comment you have to say about that? How
                            the fuck did that happen under democracy?
                            "We come in peace", ha. Oh I get it, you
                            can kill, but no one else is supposed to.
                            Just like you can have nuclear weapons,
                            and shit loads of them, and ready to use
                            them on the first sign of trouble (bunker
                            busting nukes?), but no one else should
                            have them. Talk about double standards. I
                            will shut up when you apply the same set
                            of rules and regulations you scream at
                            others (I bet if the current
                            administration is running WW II, they
                            would've claimed German troops are
                            terrorists and don't deserve the Geneva
                            \_ different standards for white people
                            Convention). A real test of any man, any
                            nation, is how you stick to your
                            principles you claim to be so great when
                            you are the one under fire. It's always
                            easy to stand on the side lines and say,
                            oh look, you violated human rights! Hmmm,
                            I wonder why the Whitehouse PR machine has
                            stopped accusing other nation of HR
                            violations... -pissed off at double standards
                            \_ You really have me howling with laughter
                               here. I want you to know that someone
                               appreciates your work. Please look up the
                               famous Stalin quote "The death of one man
                               is a tragedy. The death of millions is a
                               statistic," and think for a second about how
                               my deliberate referencing of this quote
                               could not possibly be an effort to make
                               George Bush look better. Unless I was
                               a big Stalinist. Which I am not. I almost
                               didn't add that last sentence, but your utter
                               inability to see historical references
                               right in front of your face forced me to make
                               it 100% clear what I meant. -motdtl
                                \_ No shit, I can't believe no one caught on
                                   and it quickly devolved into politically
                                   correct BS.  Ok, I can believe the second
                                   part.  The original quote was to show
                                   that the Chinese have means at their
                                   disposal to deal with internal problems
                                   which we do not [yet] have.
        \_ First time I read this I thought SS meant the German secret police.
           \_ me too.  I was trying to figure out the American SS