1/26    Not only the below, but conservatives have a handy dandy calculator
        to tell you how much you're losing under the current Soc Sec system:
        http://www.heritage.org/research/features/socialsecurity
        It says if I'm a 30-year-old male earning $8K/year now and put all
        my social security money into 3% government bonds, I'd get $970/month
        from private accounts, compared to $935/month in the old system!
        Woohoo!
        \_ And your tax burden over your lifetime goes up how much to pay for
           the transition to privitization?
           \_ Why does the transition have to cost anything at all? We
              are running a surplus. Just take the money currently in the
              plan and invest it differently. It doesn't have to be
              'privatized' just invested better.
              \_ To do what you suggest would take changing a huge number of
                 laws and market regulations.  Investing it "better" means
                 increasing risk.  It's social SECURITY.  It's design is
                 predicated upon SECURE investment.  As long as this country
                 exists, it is guaranteed.  Anything less throws that out
                 the window.
                 \_ If the fund falls short you borrow. Imagine it being
                    secured like the FDIC.
                    \_ Imagine a prolonged tanking of the stock market,
                       with a self-propagating cycle of borrowing more,
                       other countries moving out of the dollar, higher
                       interest rates, and people going underwater on
                       their mortgages
                       \_ SS is not designed to protect against doomsday
                          scenarios. Imagine that the dollar goes into
                          a tailspin and your SS money is still worth the
                          same in dollars, or imagine frightful inflation.
                          SS as currently concocted won't protect against these.
                          \_ At least we would all be in the same boat
                             together.
                 \_ Is investing it 100% in T-bills more or less risky than
                    the current regime?
        \_ This from the same guys who endorsed Chalabi and said we'd be
           welcomed with open arms?
        \_ And if you fall off a ladder and break your neck at 30, you will be
           penniless and broke and without any safety net, just the way the
           Republicans want you to be.
        \_ It says I'm losing $9,000 per month.
           \_ More than that for me, but more importantly it's a $1 million
              difference. That's a lot of money. Fuck SS.
              \_ You're not paying into SS for your retirement.  You're paying
                 for it so your parents and grandparents and uncles don't end
                 up eating dog food and shivvering in the dark with no medical
                 care.
                 Before SS, people saved for their retirement, but a LOT of old
                 people lived longer than they expected, or had some fiancial
                 hardship and flat-out didn't have enough money.  It was a
                 humane response to a humanitarian problem.  If we convert to
                 private accounts, setting aside for a moment how we pay for
                 that... we will still end up with a lot of old people living
                 in abject poverty because either they didn't save enough or
                 they got swindled.  We CSUAers like to think we're pretty
                 smart, but how many people will invest money in dodgy fly
                 by nights, penny-stocks and junk bonds?  When these people are
                 70 and broke will we still have social security to take care
                 of them?  Or will we just say 'ownership society'?
                 \_ Privatizing social security will have a hugely positive,
                    liberating effect on the economy! -troll
                 \_ Just invest the money in the index. I shouldn't be
                    forced to pay for your uncle and grandma. If I want to
                    pay for my own (or not) that's my business.
                    \_ I with more pro-privitization people had your kind of
                       courage to just come right out and say they want to let
                       old people starve.
                       \_ Old people worked their whole lives and should
                          have something to show for it other than my
                          money. Maybe if they weren't paying so much in
                          SS taxes they would have some money left for
                          themselves.
                          themselves. Alternately, maybe if their money
                          had been invested smarter when they were younger
                          they'd have more money now. The argument is that
                          you can take SS as it exists now and make it a
                          lot better just by changing what it invests in.
                          No costs at all and everyone benefits.
                    \_ Then go buy an island and form your own nation.
                    \_ Index fund?  If the stock market tanks, you're fucked.
                       \_ Yes, this is why I don't invest in my 401k. I am
                          very fearful of the stock market going into a
                          decades-long tailspin.
            \_ If you are paying that much into SS, you can afford to fund
               your own $1M retirement fund, like I am doing. SS is there
               as a safety net, not to fund your lifetestyle of luxury.
               \_ So I should give away $1 million opportunity cost just
                  because I can save $1 million more? Huh?
                  \_ The $1M "opportunity cost" is just a figment of your
                     imagination. The taxes you pay are the cost for living
                     in a stable and sane society. Don't like paying taxes?
                     Simple, move to a country where there aren't any.
                     I am pretty sure the Congo does not require any
                     Social Security taxes.
        \_ It does a fair job of comparing your benefits under the two systems.
           It fails to acknowledge that we're currently under a 'PAYGO' system
           and all the pain converting to personal accounts will cause.  It
           makes it look like the SocSec system is ripping off everyone when
           a big part of the problem is that under the current system everyone
           is paying for their ancestor's retirements.
           \_ i.e. ripping off everyone