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| 5/29 |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:35881 Activity:very high |
1/24 Pro-life gaining momentum, with only 34% in the US in favor
of abortion. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145221,00.html
Also 30 states ready to ban abortion:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134530,00.html
I'm thankful for God and George Bush for making America
a better place to live. God Bless.
\_ Coathangers: They're not just for clothing any more.
\_ "According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34
percent of those surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally
available, as it is now. Forty-four percent wanted stricter limits
and 21 percent wanted an outright ban."
!= "34% in the US in favor of abortion"
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invetro fertilization?
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invitro fertilization?
By their, and the so called "Army of God"'s, definitions, you
shove a half dozen "live babies" (fertilized eggs) into some
40 year old career woman's barren womb, and expect most of them
to die. "Live babies" which are not injected, and are later
not needed, are thrown away to die cold and alone in a bio-
hazard bag. But none of these clinics get mail bombs, anthrax
threats, or even picketers! What gives??
\_ God works one step at a time. Ideally, childless couples
could adopt kids who were not aborted.
\_ Your God sucks. My God, Enthuramanien, executes 4 steps
per clock on average.
\_ Some of us *do* complain about it.
\_ you are right and many pro-lifers do not like
invitro fertilization.
\_ You're looking for consistency from a group who thinks
Spongebob will taint their children, but not Joe Camel?
\_ I don't know about that, but there are lots of militant
radical feminists who believe that in-vitro fertilization
is a curse, further enslaving women to the
male-created "responsibility" of producing babies.
These people are really quite insane.
\_ Sigh. You forgot the relationship that states honest != OP.
\_ I never understood the issue of the need for late term abortion.
Pro-Life / Pro-Choice aside, if a women decides to abort the baby
6, 7, 8 months into pregnancy, isn't that just plain irresponsible
on the woman's part? I mean, what was the women doing for 6 months?
Couln't she have decided by then? I'm speaking of normal scenarios.
Rape, safety of mother's life and etc... are of course another
story. Someone care to enlighten me?
\_ You haven't understood because it's a non-issue. The number of
procedures as most people understand the definition is
infinitesimal. This whole non-issue is sold so legislation
with vague wording can be pushed through by upsetting people
with a fiction. Such legislation is the lip of the slippery
slope.
\_ Perhaps someone should define Pro-Life and Pro-Choice for me.
\_ Would you say that the number of late-term abortions in the
US is greater than or less than the number of multiple
murders of wife and unborn child? Or the number of death
penalty executions?
\_ You're heading for a false dichotomy. Late-term
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully).
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully). And I don't
have numbers, but I'd be willing to bet less.
\_ "The number of procedures as most people understand
the definition is infinitesimal." So, "as most people
understand the definition", how "infinitesimal" is it?
Fewer than death penalty executions? Fewer than wife/
unborn infant multiple murders? Fewer than Columbine
style massacres?
\_ Do you think a woman who finds out her baby has
0% chance of survival at birth and decides to
have an abortion should be thrown in jail. This
is what "late-term abortion ban" is about.
\_ So the definition of "late-term abortion" requires
a non-viable fetus? Reference please.
\_ No. The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of
last year makes the process this woman would
use ILLEGAL.
\_ Now, you do understand that this is not
the same as when you claimed that '"late-
term abortion ban" is about [banning
abortions of non-viable fetus]'. How about
banning "late-term abortion" except in
cases where the fetus has a "0% chance
of survival at birth"?
\_ Of course, but bad law/policy is no
excuse. This is only one aspect of the
discussion. An abortion is one the
hardest decisions a woman would ever
have to make. But if she makes it, she
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and should not be
thrown in jail for it.
\_ Even if the fetus were viable outside
the womb, the woman should still have
an unlimited right to choose? How
about if the woman were in the midst
of labor when she makes a last minute
choice to abort? An extreme case, of
course, but should it be illegal or
should that still be a woman's choice?
\_ An idiotic "case". If these are
the hairs you're splitting, you need
to reexamine your view of people.
These things don't need to be
legislated.
\_ This made me laugh out loud.
Infanticide (which is what this
'case' describes) does not
need to be legislated, you say?
How about plain old murder?
I wonder what you think needs
legislation. Probably whether
someone can own a gun or
something vitally important
like that. -- ilyas
\_ Why does this not require
legislation? Are you claiming
this will *never* happen?
this will *never* happen? You
are so good at having opinions.
Now please support them with
sound reasoning.
\_ Killing my wife is one of the hardest
decisions I could ever have to make.
But if I make it, I should have access
to the safest procedure possible,
and I should not be thrown in jail
for it.
\_ Getting a tattoo is one of the
hardest decisions I could ever have
to make. But if I make it, I
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and I should
not be thrown in jail for it.
\_ How many Columbine style massacres were there last
year? Fewer than that too? How about genocides?
Or gas chamber death camps? Are you really sure that
things that happen rarely or almost never at all are
not worthy of legal prohibition?
\_ Specifically worded, perhaps not; laws that are
ambiguous, such as the so-called "Partial Birth
Abortion" ban, are just devious legislation.
\_ So you would support legislation banning "late-
term abortion" so long as the act was
specifically defined?
\_ I actually wouldn't oppose it (though I doubt
I'd support it). The point is moot. Above
poster is correct. The existing attempts at
"partial birth" and "late term" abortion bans
are all examples of gaming the process. The
people who might write such a law won't because
it isn't in their interest. -- ulysses
\_ Thank you. This is a much more defendable
position than the simple doctrinaire "it's
a woman's choice" most of the pro-choice
crowd spews. You do realize that you're
slipping into the zone of the 44% who
support some limit on abortion?
\_ You do realize you're in the demographic
that has no inkling of the history of the
effects of abortion being illegal?
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. A
limit on abortion is not the same thing
as a blanket prohibition on it. We
are a different people than we were
40 years ago.
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. Its
beginnings are much more so. We can
agree that late-term-abortion-as-
birth-control is abhorrent, but we
have plenty of room to debate
abortion as mercy-killing (Tay-
Sachs or even Downs Syndrome).
\_ And I would have no problem
with "late-term" abortion
under special circumstances.
I suspect I would even have no
problem with the reciprocal,
where "late-term" abortion is
only illegal for special circum-
stances. But I am not comfort-
able with absolutist yea or
nay position. As we both agree,
life is complicated and subtle,
and the absolutist position is
such a blunt instrument.
\_ The problem is that as soon
as you start defining
specifics both sides will
drag it into the courts
to either restrict or
loosen the limits. This
will go on forever.
\_ Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states, except
when the health of the mother is a factor.
\_ "Pro-life." Right. How many of those who are "Pro-life" are anti-
death penalty? Call it what it is: Anti-abortion. The term "Pro-
life" is inherently a ridiculous strawman.
\_ Pro-life is pretty accurate. The fact is that, had the mother
not aborted, there would very likely be a little baby at birth
time.
Pro-life people weigh the life of the baby yet to be born
equally with the life of the mother.
\_ So why not call themselves "Anti-Mother"? Aside from the
Kevorkians and the nihilists, everyone is pro-life. To be
anti-life is just plain silly. The tag is meaningless because
it does nothing to describe the actual goals of the people
so labelled, namely, to illegalize abortion. So say Anti-
Abortion and get on with it.
\_ Shrug. In their view, if you think abortion should be
legal, you are pro-murder, which is worse than anti-life. |
| 5/29 |
|
| www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145221,00.html search) offered solidarity to tens of tho usands of anti-abortion demonstrators Monday, who braved bitter cold to unite in what they call a "generational struggle." "What unites us is our understanding that the essence of civilization is this: The strong have a duty to protect the week," Bush could be heard o ver loudspeakers at the 32nd March for Life. The day of rallies, a march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Supreme Court and other activities is organized each year to protest the Supreme Cour t decision legalizing abortion. Bush, who was not in Washington on Monda y, but at the presidential retreat in Camp David, said he is working wit h Congress to pass "good, solid legislation to protect the vulnerable." He cited his signing of legislation last year to outlaw late-term aborti ons. Bush also said that he would continue "seeking common ground where possib le and persuading increasing numbers of our fellow citizens of the right ness of our cause. This is the path of the culture of life that we seek for our country." Members attending this year's event say the tide of public opinion has tu rned, and the Supreme Court will reverse its 1973 Roe v Wade ruling and give states the power to establish abortion laws. "I can stand here in front of you today and say that the end of abortion on demand has started. "We have to ask the question: how many more babies, how many more young l ives have to suffer this horrible and painful death," said Rep. Scott Ga rrett, R-NJ Also present were women who once had abortions and now have regrets, fore most among them Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of the Roe v Wade decisi on. Last week, McCorvey formally asked the Supreme Court to overturn its decision. "We look forward to having abortion the covenant of death to be overt urned," she said. Abortion foes may find their position is growing in popularity. According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34 percent of thos e surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally available, as it is now. Fo rty-four percent wanted stricter limits and 21 percent wanted an outrigh t ban. But abortion rights supporters say women who seek an abortion rarely have other options. "Regardless of what people say in the polls, there are very few people in this country who want us to go back to the days of our grandmothers and our great grandmothers, where women had 10, 12, 15, 18 children," said National Organization of Women President Kim Gandy. Gandy added that current statistics show that abortions are not available in 87 percent of the nation's counties. "There is an extraordinary effort targeted at abortion providers to try t o drive them out of business, and targeted at medical schools to get the m to stop teaching new doctors how to perform abortions," she said. Nineteen states have governors and majorities in both legislatures that o ppose current abortion laws. Only three states have governors and majori ties in both legislatures that support current abortion law, according t o the Naral Pro-Choice America Foundation. Rehnquist appeared f rail at Bush's inauguration last week after undergoing thyroid cancer tr eatment. One or more court vacancies would give President Bush the chance to insta ll another justice or justices who oppose the Roe decision, increasing t he likelihood that at some point, the ruling could be overturned. That law ordered the use of a feeding tu be to keep the brain-damaged Schiavo alive. "It's just pathetic what they have done to her and it's judicial homici de," said Robert Schindler, Schiavo's father. The high court's decision means Schiavo's estranged husband may soon disc onnect her feeding tube. Although the case is unrelated to abortion, man y marchers say they see Schiavo's fate part of a larger struggle to defi ne state control over life. FOX News' Major Garrett and The Associated Press contributed to this repo rt. com Site Tools Take advantage of services and tools that get you closer to the news. Sub scribe to FOX News Alerts, or download our FNC Ringtones, Search Toolbar , Ticker and more. |
| www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134530,00.html Others have language in their state constitutions or strongly anti-abortion legislatures that would a ct quickly if the federal protection for abortion was ended and the issu e reverted to the states. "The building blocks are already in place to recriminalize abortion," sai d Nancy Northup, the center's president. The group's report comes less than a month before the presidential electi on, which those on both sides of the abortion issue say will be critical in determining the future of the Roe decision. search), but that balance could be tipped if President Bush, in a second term, nominates a new justice who reflects his anti-abortio n views. Democratic contender John Kerry is a strong supporter of aborti on rights. The center found that 18 states had pre-Roe laws totally or partially ban ning abortion. In some cases those laws have been blocked by a court, bu t could easily be revived if Roe were overturned. Alabama is one state w here the abortion ban was never enjoined by the courts, and could be imm ediately enforced. Other states such as Ohio don't have abortion bans, but both the legislat ure and the governor oppose abortion and without Roe there would likely be a rush to pass legislation banning abortion, the center said. It concluded that 21 states are at high risk, and nine states at middle r isk, of banning abortion within a year of Roe being overturned. More tha n 70 million women of childbearing age would be affected, the center sai d Another 20 states, including Massachusetts, which has a pre-Roe ban, woul d likely retain abortion rights because of other statutory protections o r the makeup of their legislatures. The 21 states considered at high risk of banning abortion were: Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi , Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhod e Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wiscon sin. The nine at middle risk: Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa , Kansas, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. The 20 at lower risk: Alaska, California, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, M aine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, N ew Mexico, New York, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, Washington, West Virgin ia and Wyoming. The Center for Reproductive Rights, on its Web site, says it "is a non-pr ofit legal advocacy organization dedicated to promoting and defending wo men's reproductive rights worldwide." com Site Tools Take advantage of services and tools that get you closer to the news. Sub scribe to FOX News Alerts, or download our FNC Ringtones, Search Toolbar , Ticker and more. |