1/24 Pro-life gaining momentum, with only 34% in the US in favor
of abortion. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145221,00.html
Also 30 states ready to ban abortion:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134530,00.html
I'm thankful for God and George Bush for making America
a better place to live. God Bless.
\_ Coathangers: They're not just for clothing any more.
\_ "According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34
percent of those surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally
available, as it is now. Forty-four percent wanted stricter limits
and 21 percent wanted an outright ban."
!= "34% in the US in favor of abortion"
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invetro fertilization?
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invitro fertilization?
By their, and the so called "Army of God"'s, definitions, you
shove a half dozen "live babies" (fertilized eggs) into some
40 year old career woman's barren womb, and expect most of them
to die. "Live babies" which are not injected, and are later
not needed, are thrown away to die cold and alone in a bio-
hazard bag. But none of these clinics get mail bombs, anthrax
threats, or even picketers! What gives??
\_ God works one step at a time. Ideally, childless couples
could adopt kids who were not aborted.
\_ Your God sucks. My God, Enthuramanien, executes 4 steps
per clock on average.
\_ Some of us *do* complain about it.
\_ you are right and many pro-lifers do not like
invitro fertilization.
\_ You're looking for consistency from a group who thinks
Spongebob will taint their children, but not Joe Camel?
\_ I don't know about that, but there are lots of militant
radical feminists who believe that in-vitro fertilization
is a curse, further enslaving women to the
male-created "responsibility" of producing babies.
These people are really quite insane.
\_ Sigh. You forgot the relationship that states honest != OP.
\_ I never understood the issue of the need for late term abortion.
Pro-Life / Pro-Choice aside, if a women decides to abort the baby
6, 7, 8 months into pregnancy, isn't that just plain irresponsible
on the woman's part? I mean, what was the women doing for 6 months?
Couln't she have decided by then? I'm speaking of normal scenarios.
Rape, safety of mother's life and etc... are of course another
story. Someone care to enlighten me?
\_ You haven't understood because it's a non-issue. The number of
procedures as most people understand the definition is
infinitesimal. This whole non-issue is sold so legislation
with vague wording can be pushed through by upsetting people
with a fiction. Such legislation is the lip of the slippery
slope.
\_ Perhaps someone should define Pro-Life and Pro-Choice for me.
\_ Would you say that the number of late-term abortions in the
US is greater than or less than the number of multiple
murders of wife and unborn child? Or the number of death
penalty executions?
\_ You're heading for a false dichotomy. Late-term
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully).
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully). And I don't
have numbers, but I'd be willing to bet less.
\_ "The number of procedures as most people understand
the definition is infinitesimal." So, "as most people
understand the definition", how "infinitesimal" is it?
Fewer than death penalty executions? Fewer than wife/
unborn infant multiple murders? Fewer than Columbine
style massacres?
\_ Do you think a woman who finds out her baby has
0% chance of survival at birth and decides to
have an abortion should be thrown in jail. This
is what "late-term abortion ban" is about.
\_ So the definition of "late-term abortion" requires
a non-viable fetus? Reference please.
\_ No. The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of
last year makes the process this woman would
use ILLEGAL.
\_ Now, you do understand that this is not
the same as when you claimed that '"late-
term abortion ban" is about [banning
abortions of non-viable fetus]'. How about
banning "late-term abortion" except in
cases where the fetus has a "0% chance
of survival at birth"?
\_ Of course, but bad law/policy is no
excuse. This is only one aspect of the
discussion. An abortion is one the
hardest decisions a woman would ever
have to make. But if she makes it, she
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and should not be
thrown in jail for it.
\_ Even if the fetus were viable outside
the womb, the woman should still have
an unlimited right to choose? How
about if the woman were in the midst
of labor when she makes a last minute
choice to abort? An extreme case, of
course, but should it be illegal or
should that still be a woman's choice?
\_ An idiotic "case". If these are
the hairs you're splitting, you need
to reexamine your view of people.
These things don't need to be
legislated.
\_ This made me laugh out loud.
Infanticide (which is what this
'case' describes) does not
need to be legislated, you say?
How about plain old murder?
I wonder what you think needs
legislation. Probably whether
someone can own a gun or
something vitally important
like that. -- ilyas
\_ Why does this not require
legislation? Are you claiming
this will *never* happen?
this will *never* happen? You
are so good at having opinions.
Now please support them with
sound reasoning.
\_ Killing my wife is one of the hardest
decisions I could ever have to make.
But if I make it, I should have access
to the safest procedure possible,
and I should not be thrown in jail
for it.
\_ Getting a tattoo is one of the
hardest decisions I could ever have
to make. But if I make it, I
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and I should
not be thrown in jail for it.
\_ How many Columbine style massacres were there last
year? Fewer than that too? How about genocides?
Or gas chamber death camps? Are you really sure that
things that happen rarely or almost never at all are
not worthy of legal prohibition?
\_ Specifically worded, perhaps not; laws that are
ambiguous, such as the so-called "Partial Birth
Abortion" ban, are just devious legislation.
\_ So you would support legislation banning "late-
term abortion" so long as the act was
specifically defined?
\_ I actually wouldn't oppose it (though I doubt
I'd support it). The point is moot. Above
poster is correct. The existing attempts at
"partial birth" and "late term" abortion bans
are all examples of gaming the process. The
people who might write such a law won't because
it isn't in their interest. -- ulysses
\_ Thank you. This is a much more defendable
position than the simple doctrinaire "it's
a woman's choice" most of the pro-choice
crowd spews. You do realize that you're
slipping into the zone of the 44% who
support some limit on abortion?
\_ You do realize you're in the demographic
that has no inkling of the history of the
effects of abortion being illegal?
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. A
limit on abortion is not the same thing
as a blanket prohibition on it. We
are a different people than we were
40 years ago.
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. Its
beginnings are much more so. We can
agree that late-term-abortion-as-
birth-control is abhorrent, but we
have plenty of room to debate
abortion as mercy-killing (Tay-
Sachs or even Downs Syndrome).
\_ And I would have no problem
with "late-term" abortion
under special circumstances.
I suspect I would even have no
problem with the reciprocal,
where "late-term" abortion is
only illegal for special circum-
stances. But I am not comfort-
able with absolutist yea or
nay position. As we both agree,
life is complicated and subtle,
and the absolutist position is
such a blunt instrument.
\_ The problem is that as soon
as you start defining
specifics both sides will
drag it into the courts
to either restrict or
loosen the limits. This
will go on forever.
\_ Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states, except
when the health of the mother is a factor.
\_ "Pro-life." Right. How many of those who are "Pro-life" are anti-
death penalty? Call it what it is: Anti-abortion. The term "Pro-
life" is inherently a ridiculous strawman.
\_ Pro-life is pretty accurate. The fact is that, had the mother
not aborted, there would very likely be a little baby at birth
time.
Pro-life people weigh the life of the baby yet to be born
equally with the life of the mother.
\_ So why not call themselves "Anti-Mother"? Aside from the
Kevorkians and the nihilists, everyone is pro-life. To be
anti-life is just plain silly. The tag is meaningless because
it does nothing to describe the actual goals of the people
so labelled, namely, to illegalize abortion. So say Anti-
Abortion and get on with it.
\_ Shrug. In their view, if you think abortion should be
legal, you are pro-murder, which is worse than anti-life. |