Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 35881
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2025/05/28 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/28    

2005/1/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:35881 Activity:very high
1/24    Pro-life gaining momentum, with only 34% in the US in favor
        of abortion. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145221,00.html
        Also 30 states ready to ban abortion:
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134530,00.html
        I'm thankful for God and George Bush for making America
        a better place to live. God Bless.
        \_ Coathangers: They're not just for clothing any more.
        \_ "According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34
           percent of those surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally
           available, as it is now. Forty-four percent wanted stricter limits
           and 21 percent wanted an outright ban."
           != "34% in the US in favor of abortion"
           \_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invetro fertilization?
           \_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invitro fertilization?
              By their, and the so called "Army of God"'s, definitions, you
              shove a half dozen "live babies" (fertilized eggs) into some
              40 year old career woman's barren womb, and expect most of them
              to die.  "Live babies" which are not injected, and are later
              not needed, are thrown away to die cold and alone in a bio-
              hazard bag.  But none of these clinics get mail bombs, anthrax
              threats, or even picketers!  What gives??
              \_ God works one step at a time.  Ideally, childless couples
                 could adopt kids who were not aborted.
                 \_ Your God sucks. My God, Enthuramanien, executes 4 steps
                    per clock on average.
              \_ Some of us *do* complain about it.
              \_ you are right and many pro-lifers do not like
                 invitro fertilization.
              \_ You're looking for consistency from a group who thinks
                 Spongebob will taint their children, but not Joe Camel?
              \_ I don't know about that, but there are lots of militant
                 radical feminists who believe that in-vitro fertilization
                 is a curse, further enslaving women to the
                 male-created "responsibility" of producing babies.
                 These people are really quite insane.
           \_ Sigh.  You forgot the relationship that states honest != OP.
        \_ I never understood the issue of the need for late term abortion.
           Pro-Life / Pro-Choice aside, if a women decides to abort the baby
           6, 7, 8 months into pregnancy, isn't that just plain irresponsible
           on the woman's part?  I mean, what was the women doing for 6 months?
           Couln't she have decided by then?  I'm speaking of normal scenarios.
           Rape, safety of mother's life and etc... are of course another
           story.  Someone care to enlighten me?
           \_ You haven't understood because it's a non-issue.  The number of
              procedures as most people understand the definition is
              infinitesimal.  This whole non-issue is sold so legislation
              with vague wording can be pushed through by upsetting people
              with a fiction.  Such legislation is the lip of the slippery
              slope.
              \_ Perhaps someone should define Pro-Life and Pro-Choice for me.
              \_ Would you say that the number of late-term abortions in the
                 US is greater than or less than the number of multiple
                 murders of wife and unborn child?  Or the number of death
                 penalty executions?
                 \_ You're heading for a false dichotomy.  Late-term
                    abortion is ill-defined (purposefully).
                    abortion is ill-defined (purposefully).  And I don't
                    have numbers, but I'd be willing to bet less.
                    \_ "The number of procedures as most people understand
                       the definition is infinitesimal."  So, "as most people
                       understand the definition", how "infinitesimal" is it?
                       Fewer than death penalty executions?  Fewer than wife/
                       unborn infant multiple murders?  Fewer than Columbine
                       style massacres?
                       \_ Do you think a woman who finds out her baby has
                          0% chance of survival at birth and decides to
                          have an abortion should be thrown in jail.  This
                          is what "late-term abortion ban" is about.
                          \_ So the definition of "late-term abortion" requires
                             a non-viable fetus?  Reference please.
                             \_ No.  The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of
                                last year makes the process this woman would
                                use ILLEGAL.
                                \_ Now, you do understand that this is not
                                   the same as when you claimed that '"late-
                                   term abortion ban" is about [banning
                                   abortions of non-viable fetus]'.  How about
                                   banning "late-term abortion" except in
                                   cases where the fetus has a "0% chance
                                   of survival at birth"?
                                   \_ Of course, but bad law/policy is no
                                      excuse.  This is only one aspect of the
                                      discussion.  An abortion is one the
                                      hardest decisions a woman would ever
                                      have to make.  But if she makes it, she
                                      should have access to the safest
                                      procedure possible, and should not be
                                      thrown in jail for it.
                                      \_ Even if the fetus were viable outside
                                         the womb, the woman should still have
                                         an unlimited right to choose?  How
                                         about if the woman were in the midst
                                         of labor when she makes a last minute
                                         choice to abort?  An extreme case, of
                                         course, but should it be illegal or
                                         should that still be a woman's choice?
                                         \_ An idiotic "case".  If these are
                                            the hairs you're splitting, you need
                                            to reexamine your view of people.
                                            These things don't need to be
                                            legislated.
                                            \_ This made me laugh out loud.
                                               Infanticide (which is what this
                                               'case' describes) does not
                                               need to be legislated, you say?
                                               How about plain old murder?
                                               I wonder what you think needs
                                               legislation.  Probably whether
                                               someone can own a gun or
                                               something vitally important
                                               like that.  -- ilyas
                                            \_ Why does this not require
                                               legislation?  Are you claiming
                                               this will *never* happen?
                                               this will *never* happen?  You
                                               are so good at having opinions.
                                               Now please support them with
                                               sound reasoning.
                                      \_ Killing my wife is one of the hardest
                                         decisions I could ever have to make.
                                         But if I make it, I should have access
                                         to the safest procedure possible,
                                         and I should not be thrown in jail
                                         for it.
                                         \_ Getting a tattoo is one of the
                                            hardest decisions I could ever have
                                            to make.  But if I make it, I
                                            should have access to the safest
                                            procedure possible, and I should
                                            not be thrown in jail for it.
                    \_ How many Columbine style massacres were there last
                       year?  Fewer than that too?  How about genocides?
                       Or gas chamber death camps?  Are you really sure that
                       things that happen rarely or almost never at all are
                       not worthy of legal prohibition?
                       \_ Specifically worded, perhaps not; laws that are
                          ambiguous, such as the so-called "Partial Birth
                          Abortion" ban, are just devious legislation.
                          \_ So you would support legislation banning "late-
                             term abortion" so long as the act was
                             specifically defined?
                             \_ I actually wouldn't oppose it (though I doubt
                                I'd support it). The point is moot. Above
                                poster is correct. The existing attempts at
                                "partial birth" and "late term" abortion bans
                                are all examples of gaming the process. The
                                people who might write such a law won't because
                                it isn't in their interest. -- ulysses
                                \_ Thank you.  This is a much more defendable
                                   position than the simple doctrinaire "it's
                                   a woman's choice" most of the pro-choice
                                   crowd spews.  You do realize that you're
                                   slipping into the zone of the 44% who
                                   support some limit on abortion?
                                   \_ You do realize you're in the demographic
                                      that has no inkling of the history of the
                                      effects of abortion being illegal?
                                      \_ Life is complicated and subtle.  A
                                         limit on abortion is not the same thing
                                         as a blanket prohibition on it.  We
                                         are a different people than we were
                                         40 years ago.
                                         \_ Life is complicated and subtle. Its
                                            beginnings are much more so. We can
                                            agree that late-term-abortion-as-
                                            birth-control is abhorrent, but we
                                            have plenty of room to debate
                                            abortion as mercy-killing (Tay-
                                            Sachs or even Downs Syndrome).
                                            \_ And I would have no problem
                                               with "late-term" abortion
                                               under special circumstances.
                                               I suspect I would even have no
                                               problem with the reciprocal,
                                               where "late-term" abortion is
                                               only illegal for special circum-
                                               stances.  But I am not comfort-
                                               able with absolutist yea or
                                               nay position.  As we both agree,
                                               life is complicated and subtle,
                                               and the absolutist position is
                                               such a blunt instrument.
                                                \_ The problem is that as soon
                                                   as you start defining
                                                   specifics both sides will
                                                   drag it into the courts
                                                   to either restrict or
                                                   loosen the limits.  This
                                                   will go on forever.
           \_ Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states, except
              when the health of the mother is a factor.
        \_ "Pro-life." Right. How many of those who are "Pro-life" are anti-
           death penalty? Call it what it is: Anti-abortion. The term "Pro-
           life" is inherently a ridiculous strawman.
           \_ Pro-life is pretty accurate.  The fact is that, had the mother
              not aborted, there would very likely be a little baby at birth
              time.
              Pro-life people weigh the life of the baby yet to be born
              equally with the life of the mother.
              \_ So why not call themselves "Anti-Mother"? Aside from the
                 Kevorkians and the nihilists, everyone is pro-life. To be
                 anti-life is just plain silly. The tag is meaningless because
                 it does nothing to describe the actual goals of the people
                 so labelled, namely, to illegalize abortion. So say Anti-
                 Abortion and get on with it.
                 \_ Shrug.  In their view, if you think abortion should be
                    legal, you are pro-murder, which is worse than anti-life.
2025/05/28 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/28    

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2008/8/29-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51006 Activity:nil
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search) offered solidarity to tens of tho usands of anti-abortion demonstrators Monday, who braved bitter cold to unite in what they call a "generational struggle." "What unites us is our understanding that the essence of civilization is this: The strong have a duty to protect the week," Bush could be heard o ver loudspeakers at the 32nd March for Life. The day of rallies, a march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Supreme Court and other activities is organized each year to protest the Supreme Cour t decision legalizing abortion. Bush, who was not in Washington on Monda y, but at the presidential retreat in Camp David, said he is working wit h Congress to pass "good, solid legislation to protect the vulnerable." He cited his signing of legislation last year to outlaw late-term aborti ons. Bush also said that he would continue "seeking common ground where possib le and persuading increasing numbers of our fellow citizens of the right ness of our cause. This is the path of the culture of life that we seek for our country." Members attending this year's event say the tide of public opinion has tu rned, and the Supreme Court will reverse its 1973 Roe v Wade ruling and give states the power to establish abortion laws. "I can stand here in front of you today and say that the end of abortion on demand has started. "We have to ask the question: how many more babies, how many more young l ives have to suffer this horrible and painful death," said Rep. Scott Ga rrett, R-NJ Also present were women who once had abortions and now have regrets, fore most among them Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of the Roe v Wade decisi on. Last week, McCorvey formally asked the Supreme Court to overturn its decision. "We look forward to having abortion the covenant of death to be overt urned," she said. Abortion foes may find their position is growing in popularity. According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34 percent of thos e surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally available, as it is now. Fo rty-four percent wanted stricter limits and 21 percent wanted an outrigh t ban. But abortion rights supporters say women who seek an abortion rarely have other options. "Regardless of what people say in the polls, there are very few people in this country who want us to go back to the days of our grandmothers and our great grandmothers, where women had 10, 12, 15, 18 children," said National Organization of Women President Kim Gandy. Gandy added that current statistics show that abortions are not available in 87 percent of the nation's counties. "There is an extraordinary effort targeted at abortion providers to try t o drive them out of business, and targeted at medical schools to get the m to stop teaching new doctors how to perform abortions," she said. Nineteen states have governors and majorities in both legislatures that o ppose current abortion laws. Only three states have governors and majori ties in both legislatures that support current abortion law, according t o the Naral Pro-Choice America Foundation. Rehnquist appeared f rail at Bush's inauguration last week after undergoing thyroid cancer tr eatment. One or more court vacancies would give President Bush the chance to insta ll another justice or justices who oppose the Roe decision, increasing t he likelihood that at some point, the ruling could be overturned. That law ordered the use of a feeding tu be to keep the brain-damaged Schiavo alive. "It's just pathetic what they have done to her and it's judicial homici de," said Robert Schindler, Schiavo's father. The high court's decision means Schiavo's estranged husband may soon disc onnect her feeding tube. Although the case is unrelated to abortion, man y marchers say they see Schiavo's fate part of a larger struggle to defi ne state control over life. FOX News' Major Garrett and The Associated Press contributed to this repo rt. com Site Tools Take advantage of services and tools that get you closer to the news. Sub scribe to FOX News Alerts, or download our FNC Ringtones, Search Toolbar , Ticker and more.
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Others have language in their state constitutions or strongly anti-abortion legislatures that would a ct quickly if the federal protection for abortion was ended and the issu e reverted to the states. "The building blocks are already in place to recriminalize abortion," sai d Nancy Northup, the center's president. The group's report comes less than a month before the presidential electi on, which those on both sides of the abortion issue say will be critical in determining the future of the Roe decision. search), but that balance could be tipped if President Bush, in a second term, nominates a new justice who reflects his anti-abortio n views. Democratic contender John Kerry is a strong supporter of aborti on rights. The center found that 18 states had pre-Roe laws totally or partially ban ning abortion. In some cases those laws have been blocked by a court, bu t could easily be revived if Roe were overturned. Alabama is one state w here the abortion ban was never enjoined by the courts, and could be imm ediately enforced. Other states such as Ohio don't have abortion bans, but both the legislat ure and the governor oppose abortion and without Roe there would likely be a rush to pass legislation banning abortion, the center said. It concluded that 21 states are at high risk, and nine states at middle r isk, of banning abortion within a year of Roe being overturned. More tha n 70 million women of childbearing age would be affected, the center sai d Another 20 states, including Massachusetts, which has a pre-Roe ban, woul d likely retain abortion rights because of other statutory protections o r the makeup of their legislatures. The 21 states considered at high risk of banning abortion were: Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi , Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhod e Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wiscon sin. The nine at middle risk: Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa , Kansas, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. The 20 at lower risk: Alaska, California, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, M aine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, N ew Mexico, New York, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, Washington, West Virgin ia and Wyoming. The Center for Reproductive Rights, on its Web site, says it "is a non-pr ofit legal advocacy organization dedicated to promoting and defending wo men's reproductive rights worldwide." com Site Tools Take advantage of services and tools that get you closer to the news. Sub scribe to FOX News Alerts, or download our FNC Ringtones, Search Toolbar , Ticker and more.