Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 35870
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2005/1/24-25 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:35870 Activity:high
\1/24    On 21264, you have 80 physical registers of which 31 are visible.
        However, on P4's you have 128 physical registers, of which
        8 of them are visible at one time. The rest are used for
        speculative storage and renaming (to prevent WAW and WAR hazards).
        So, why 128 physical registers when only 8 are exposed (I presume
        they're only ax-dx, and eax-edx)? Isn't that a lot?
        \_ It's been a while since I've taken 152 but I believe this has
           something to do with register renaming. Many CPUs have extremely
           deep and wide execution pipelines allowing for a massive amount
           of in-flight instructions. You cannot have 40 instructions in-
           flight, for example, with only 8 registers. When an instruction
           is issued, it is placed in a reservation station. Its regsiter
           specifier is renamed to point to other reservation stations if
           an instruction is already in-flight. When that in-flight
           instruction is completed, the reservation station for the
           pending instruction will source the write value of the instr
           that it was dependent on. Since there can be more reservation
           stations that user accessible registers, this is how we get
           the 80 physical vs 31 visible registers.
           \_ Which semester did you take 152?  I didn't learn these in Sp93.
              \_ Perhaps buy a more recent Comp Arch book (the H&P version,
                 not the P&H one). It's covered in the section on Tomasulo's
                 algorithm. This is more graduate level stuff so it's not
                 surprising that some profs don't cover it in 152.
        \_ I think by 8 exposed registers they mean eax-edx, esi, edi, esp,
           ebp.
        \_ The P4 is a CISC machine and does a lot for one instruction.  Hence
           the work done per instruction is higher, and hence more registers
           are necessary.  When I learned RISC programming in CS60B it was
           noted that 32 registers were available, but by convention most were
           reserved--so you only really had 8-12 registers you could really
           work with.  Also, Intel has made the L0 cache very fast so that
           there isn't much of a hit moving data from cache to register.
           \_ I respectfully disagree with the post above. CISC requires
              FEWER registers than RISC because not as many intermediate regs
              need to be kept around, and if L0 was so fast there's not
              "much of a hit" then FEWER registers would be required. Different
              codes require very different number of registers; what all the
              physical registers are used for in x86 are supporting massive
              out-of-order execution, multiple simultaneous threads, loop
              unrolling, etc. ... the existence proof is that Intel would not
              have put them there unless they helped performance.
           \_ Intel machines may be technically CISC, but they're more RISCy
              than stated above.  Most compilers write code that's very RISC-
              like.  However, since backward compatibility at every step is
              key, the Intel line has been straightjacketed into the eight-
              register world.  Fortunately (or unfortunately if you hate the
              Pentium architecture), Intel (and AMD) easily finds ways around
              that.  After 30 years shackled to the same base instructions
              I'm not quite sure why Intel doesn't build a second assembly
              language to fully leverage the architecture - having a special
              mode for this - but I guess it would be more trouble than it's
              worth to do so.
              \_ They did try, and it went over like the Hindenberg (c.f.
                 IA-64)
                 \_ IA-64 sunk for other reasons.  You don't need an
                    expensive 64-bit processor without a market in order to
                    allow some programs to execute the microcode (or some
                    one-to-one translation thereof) directly.
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/3/29-6/4 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:54351 Activity:nil
3/29    A friend wants a PC (no mac). She doesn't want Dell. Is there a
        good place that can custom build for you (SSD, large RAM, cheap video
        card--no game)?
        \_ As a side note: back in my Cal days more than two decades ago when
           having a 387SX made me the only person with floating-point hardware,
           most machines were custom built.
	...
2009/8/6-14 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:53250 Activity:moderate
8/5     Why is Mac OS 10.6 $29 and 10.5.6 $129? Is it a typo?
        \_ $29 for existing users.
           \_ it doens't even support ppc does it.
              \_ who cares about ppc anymore? Everything is Intel based
                 \_ I have a PPC mini at home that I use.
                 \_ I have a quad core G5 ppc.
	...
2009/6/1-3 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:53068 Activity:high
5/31    History of winners and losers by *popularity*:
        VHS > Beta Max
        USB2 > Firewire
        x86 > PowerPC > Everything Else > DEC Alpha > Itanium
        BlueRay > HDDvd
        \_ It's too early to tell RE: "Blue"Ray. They may both turn out to be
	...
2009/5/26-30 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:53045 Activity:nil
5/26    Engineering is HOT man! Super hot co-inventor of USB at Intel:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqLPHrCQr2I
	...
2009/1/16-23 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:52404 Activity:nil
1/16    AMD to layoff 9%, suspend 401(k) match, cut engineer salaries 10%
        \_ Awwww, too bad                                       -Intel
           \_ My heart bleeds for you. --transmeta.
              \_ Wait, another sodan worked there? --ex-transmeta
                 \_ Hello transmeta-coward, meet another transmeta-coward.
  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/16/amd_q1_2009_job_cuts_wage_reductions
	...
2008/12/4-10 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:52163 Activity:nil
12/4    A question to you old crufy alumni: So lately we've suggested
        VMs, and been asked why it's necessary. We've suggested top-of-the-line
        hardware and been told we don't need that much power. So I'd like to
        ask -- what exactly do you think the CSUA is supposed to _be_?
        \_ Noone said VMs weren't needed.  They suggested you use the
        \_ No one said VMs weren't needed.  They suggested you use the
	...
2008/12/4-10 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:52172 Activity:nil
12/5    What would you guys think of this?
        TYAN Tank barebone
        http://tyan.com/product_barebones_detail.aspx?pid=353
        2x Intel Quad Xeon E5420
        http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117147
        16GB ram
	...