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| 5/17 |
| 2004/12/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35461 Activity:insanely high |
12/28 Is it me, or is $35 million the US has pledged seems rather
small? I mean we are the fucking United States of America and
all we can give in a tragedy of this magnitude is 15 million?
\_ It's just you. How many of our tax dollars should the US government
pledge to help another nation?
\_ Yes, help someone in need that you will have nothing to gain
from, that's obviously a new concept to you.
\_ It's not new at all. But that giving should be done by
individual citizens, not by allocation of our tax dollars.
\_ None. Our tax dollars should only be used to bomb them.
\_ I agree that it is rather small, compared to the amount
we have spent so far to invade another country.
\_ like Darfur, this is another opportunity which we can use
to counter Osma Bin Laden's propaganda. We should of dragged
those Arab satellite TV stations along with us, show them that
we do help out people, including those Muslim as well.
\_ the USA is not socialist! We have low taxes so that people can
keep most of their money from wasteful bureaucracy, and more
efficiently and voluntarily give to charities people can
individually select! -New Republican l0ser who STILL p0wn5 4ll u
dem0cr4tic l0s3r5!
(sarcasm aside, the problem is that Democrats intuitively know
there is a problem with the above argument, but just sit there
and fume about rich/ignorant freeper bastards instead of giving a
persuasive counter-argument)
\_ 0mgz! n3rf tr0015!!!!``111!!~@!
\_ I d like to hear some. I became a libertarian because someone
changed my mind. It could certainly be changed again. -- ilyas
\_ The problem is that, left to their own devices, people will
donate inefficiently. We need a coordinating authority to
make sure the money is spent wisely. Of course, the
government also seems to do a bad job of steering money to
projects that have the greatest positive impact.
\_ I agree that given perfect information, and given
incorruptibility, a central planning agency will do better
than a set of independent agents. However, since those
assumptions are both incorrect when applied to governments,
and since independent agents have shown to be more effective
in resource allocation for investment, for instance, than
a central agency, what makes you say the same is not true
for charity? -- ilyas
\_ fyi, "The problem is that ..." guy is not the same guy
as the "sarcasm aside, ..." guy.
\_ Note that I agreed that the government seems to do an
inefficient job of allocating charity money. So my
argument is not so much individual vs. the governemtn,
but rather the individual vs. a "charity planner".
Individual investers often (usually?) do a bad job of
managing their own investment strategy and they would be
smart to leave the job up to professinoals (mutual
funds managers, financial planners, etc.) Why not use
the analog for charity giving? Instead of individual
persons making donations based on personal whim or
public appeals, why not use follow the recommendation
offered by a charity expert? Why not donate money to a
mutual fund of charities, just as a person would
investment in a mutual fund of stocks? This is likely
not the optimal strategy (for both charitable giving
and investment), but it'll probably yield better long
term results than going it on your own.
\_ I see no problem with this, as long as people, just
as with mutual funds, have a choice of where to
donate, or whether to go at it alone. In fact, isn't
this how charity works now? -- ilyas
\_ Do I get a choice to opt-out of paying for
the war in Iraq?
\_ There are a few possibilities here:
(a) You are an anarcho-capitalist. Then I
sympathize with your plight.
(b) You don't believe in democracy as a form
of government. Then I sympathize with your
plight and agree.
(c) You are a liberal troll. Then I advice you
to go stick your head in a pig. -- ilyas
\_ Dude, you just said "Why do you hate
America?" and you didn't even realize it.
\_ Hahahaha, you are my hero!
\_ You two both took the choice of not
volunteering for the citizen-soldier armed
forces! Freedom is not free!! Now get back
to work traitors!@1! -Troll
\_ So long as the rest of us also get to opt out
of paying for the things we disagree with, sure.
\_ Um, you do realize that >90% of managed mutual funds
perform worse than the market as measured by major
indices (e.g. DOW, S&P 500, etc.), and that's
*before* deducting commissions, management fees, and
other overhead.
\_ 1. Do you think Moses came down from Mount Sinai
with the lists of stocks that comprise the Dow
(not an initial, BTW, unless you say DJIA),
S&P, etc.? 2. Asset allocation is everything.
The effect of selecting particular securities
is secondary.
\_ How much did you donate? How does the $35 million compare to
what other nations contributed? How much do they donate to us
when we have a disaster?
\_ $35 million is a lot of money for countries like Sri Lanka.
Anyway, we've donated enough money to 3rd world countries over
the years, and we've bailed them out countless times.
\_ you have to put things in perspective. Taiwan donated whopping
$50k USD to Thailand for the relief effort :p
\_ I'm sorry to say this but the wealthy Taiwanese people are one
of the most self-indulging people in this world. They drive
nice cars and eat expensive Chinese seafood yet do not
understand the meaning of charity. They don't seem to care
about anything other than keeping their blood and money in
their own circles. -dated an X-gf who was Taiwanese
\_ What about reallocating a week's worth of aid to Israel
to this earthquake/tsunami relief fund. That will be at
least $50million.
\_ Yea, but that's because they have to pay US$18 billion
(multiple times what other countries pay for them)
to the US for its outdated older generation weapons.
Generally speaking I agree with you. Part of the
reason is that Taiwan has too few Christians (2%).
\_ Hello, are you a conservative? Are you a Republican?
Do you think the war has made the world safer? Do you
think the world will be a better place when everyone
is converted to a Christian? -moderate
\_ "have to pay"?
\_ Yes, or surrender to commie China.
\_ Some one asked how much other countries have donated. Here:
The United States is offering a total of $35 million, followed
by Japan with $30 million. Australia has now pledged $27
million, Saudi Arabia $10 million and Germany $2.7 million.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/29/asia.quake/index.html
\_ Australia and Japan have more incentive to contribute,
being the major players there. What about France, Russia,
and so on? |
| 5/17 |
|
| www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/29/asia.quake/index.html BANDA ACEH, Indonesia (CNN) -- The latest death toll from the Asian tsuna mi has increased to more than 80,000 as relief workers and supplies begi n to reach some of the most devastated areas. That number could top 100,000 by the time all bodies are recovered, the I nternational Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said Wed nesday. The dramatic rise of the death toll came after officials were finally abl e to reach remote regions -- like Indonesia's Aceh province, India's And aman and Nicobar Islands and the Maldives. More than half of the total deaths so far were in Indonesia, the nearest land mass to Sunday's undersea earthquake that triggered the deadly wave s and flooding in about a dozen countries, from Thailand to East Africa. The United Nations' Jan Egeland said one in every four people on Aceh had been killed. He also said about $220 million in cash donations had been received or pl edged so far for the relief effort and "perhaps and equal amount of fund s in in-kind donations" such as military and civil defense aid. Four days after the quake, Indonesian authorities said they had found mas s destruction in Aceh. CNN's Mike Chinoy said the capital of Banda Aceh, which was closest to the epicenter of the quake, was largely destroyed. Indonesia's Health Ministry confirmed Wednesday that the country's death toll had risen to 45,268, with another 1,240 people still missing. In Sri Lanka, authorities increased the death toll in that country to 23, 015 after every structure along the southern coast was damaged or swept away. More than 4,000 are missing, The number of deaths confirmed by CNN in all affected countries now stand s at 80,427. Other nations are continuing to report more casualties from the killer wa ves, spawned by a magnitude 90 earthquake that struck off the western-m ost portion of the northern Indonesian island of Sumatra. UNICEF director Carol Bellamy said as many as one-third of the victims ma y be children, because children are "the least able to withstand the flo oding or holding on." In India, the government news agency said at least 10,000 Indians were ki lled and more bodies were being recovered. Along India's southeastern coast, thousands of fishermen who were at sea when the waves thundered ashore have not returned. In Tamil Nadu state, sources said 7,000 people were dead, and estimates p ut the death toll at 3,000 on the remote Andaman and Nicobar islands, wh ere dozens of aftershocks were centered. Full story) In Thailand, officials confirmed 1,830 deaths, most of them are believed to have been in the low-lying coastal province of Phang Na. The country's health ministry said for every Thai resident killed in the disaster, two tourists perished. Nordic countries dispatched search teams and made public appeals for help to find some 2,700 Swedes, Danes, Finns and Norwegians missing in south Asia. Full story) While Thai officials fear hundreds of tourists may have died, so far at l east 64 deaths have been confirmed. Hospital workers and witnesses repor t hundreds of bodies washing in from the sea. On the resort island of Phuket, officials have set up a bulletin board of photographs at city hall as well as a Web site to help families and fri ends find one another. Some of Thailand's smaller vacation islands were completely swallowed by the water, said Foreign Minister Surakiart Sathirathai. Khun Poom Jensen, the 21-year-old autistic grandson of Thailand's King Bh umibol Adulyadej, was among those killed. In all, at least 11 countries -- including Myanmar, Malaysia, Bangladesh and Tanzania -- were affected by the monstrous waves. With the death count rising, the scale of the devastation is overwhelming . "I've not experienced anything like this in my 30 years in the relief and emergency business," said Scott Faiia, CARE's country director for Sri Lanka. Ronen Sen, India's ambassador to the United States, told CNN that this di saster is "of a magnitude which we have not witnessed earlier." In Sri Lanka, a spokesman for President Chandrika Bandaranaike Kumaratung a, said the death and destruction was causing "a huge situation." "There are instances where bodies are decomposing, and they're being phot ographed and fingerprinted" before being taken to mass graves, said Hari m Peiris." "And there are instances where entire families have been wiped out." There is also concern over disease from corpses, forcing health officials in Sri Lanka to order mass burials before the bodies have been identifi ed by family members. As the enormous impact of the disaster takes hold, one of the world's lar gest relief efforts is gaining momentum. Countries and aid organizations around the world are making donations of funding, supplies and personne l to the ravaged areas. Full story) International health and relief organizations have emphasized that gettin g clean water to survivors is an absolute priority, and they warn of thr eat of typhoid, malaria and cholera. Full story) "The fundamental need at the moment is to look after the well-being of li ving people and to make sure that they have what they need for life," Da vid Nabarro, of the World Health Organization, told CNN. "And the requirement to properly dispose of dead people through burial or some other method in a way that is appropriate for the local tradition is certainly there. But it's not urgent from the point of view of public health." The United States is offering a total of $35 million, followed by Japan w ith $30 million. Australia has now pledged $27 million, Saudi Arabia $10 million and Germany $27 million. List of aid agencies) A number of other countries also are reportedly planning to participate i n the relief effort. Meanwhile, relief workers and supplies have started to arrive in Indonesi a's Aceh province. UNICEF's John Budd told CNN his agency was sending 200,000 emergency kits to Aceh, but more was needed. "Six to eight weeks of emergency funding -- tens of millions in Aceh to keep them alive -- and then long term to rebuild infrastructure," he said. Complicating the relief efforts in Aceh is an armed separatist movement t hat has kept the region off-limits to aid groups and journalists for yea rs. The Indonesian government, however, eased those restrictions under t he circumstances. In Sri Lanka, international aid convoys arrived Wednesday in Galle on the southwest corner of the island, bringing drinking water and other aid t o residents. On the remote Andaman and Nicobar islands, east of India, communications lines have been cut and supplies will not be easy to deliver, CNN's Mall ika Kapur reported from Port Blair, the Andaman capital. Full story ) CNN Correspondents Hugh Riminton in Colombo, Sri Lanka; Atika Shubert and Mike Chenoy in Banda Aceh, Indone sia; and Journalist Iqbal Athas in Sri Lanka contr ibuted to this report. This material may not be publishe d, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |