12/6    I'm at my wit's end with a problem.  I'm running WinXP and a lot of
        newer 3D games make the machine randomly lock hard.  There isn't much
        pattern to it, but some games do it and some don't.  This problem is
        not mentioned under tech support for the games besides the generic
        "Update your drivers and DirectX" which I've done.  Games which crash
        include Railroad Tycoon 3, Rome:Total War and Sid Meier's Pirates, and
        in the non-crash group is GTA:Vice City, Doom3, and MS Flight Sim 2004.
        I don't know what else to try, is it a hardware failure of some type,
        or maybe AGP apperture?  This is a GeForceFX5700 on an Athlon XP.
        \_ SP2?  Running in safe mode works?  Maybe bad memory?  -John
           \_ SP2.  Can you use D3D in safe mode?  Other apps are stable.
                \_ SP2 fucks up a lot of apps and games.  There are lists
                   of known problems at the MS site.  I think there's a way
                   under safe mode to select the drivers you load.  Just as
                   a terribly stupid idea, try setting up a vmware session and
                   running the game inside that--it might give you some more
                   clues.  -John
                   \_ The SP2 issues page seems all about firewall issues,
                      which is not the problem.  Safe mode, while a good idea,
                      prevents DirectX from working.
        \_ I had some similar problems after I installed a new video card
           in my old computer. Make sure you are not overloading your video
           bus. Try turning down the AGP rate from 4X to 2X or even 1X and
           then see if it still happens. I tried a bunch of things before
           I hit upon this. You can set it in your start-up screen. -ausman
           \_ Motherboard supports 2x and 4x.  Switching to 2x did not fix it.
        \_ Do you have the VIA chipset?  I do, and I have the same
           symptoms, as documented on <DEAD>viaarena.com<DEAD>.  -ax
           \_ MB is Abit KG7, with AMD 761 northbridge and VIA 686B south.
           \_ What did you do about it? -ausman
                \_ I got used to not being able to play the Medal of Honor
                   series.  Most other 3D games work fine.  -ax
        \_ Could be something overheating.
           \_ But Doom3 runs fine for hours.
        \_ My younger brother had this exact problem after we added another
           Corsair CL2 DIMM to get him to 1 GB.  Entered BIOS settings and
           turned CAS settings from Auto or CL2 to CL3 - now everything works
           fine.
           \_ Some games worked and other didn't? -op
              \_ I don't think you should put too much concern on the
                 "some game work and other don't". The game that works
                 may just be not exercising the CPU enough or something.
                 I would suggest the following, download "Ultimate BootCD"
                 and try a burn-in test, if your mahcine locks up, it's BIOS
                 or hardware problem. If it passes, then maybe a software
                 problem, reinstall XP from scrach and see if it helps.
                 If it's a software problem, most likely it'll go away.
              \_ Yes.
           \_ Can you start to play some games and then they lock up,
              or will they lock up your computer on startup?
              \_ In my case they will start, then lock randomly in 1-10
                 minutes. Screen freezes and sound gets stuck in a loop.  -op
                 \_ Now's the time to upgrade to an Athlon 64 3500+ Winchester!
                    -sl0da l0s3r
                 \_ Yeah, exact same symptoms as mine. I am pretty sure you
                    are overloading your graphics subsystem. Have you installed
                    the latest firmware upgrades on both your graphics card
                    and your mother board? Could be a sound card problem
                    too, but it seems unlikely from what you have said.
                    Any kind of hardware or driver changes lately? -ausman
                        \_ Same symptoms for me too.  -ax
        \_ OK, an update for those whove been helping me:  I ran memtest86 and
           one other memory tester.  Both ran for a while reporting no errors
           until the system suddenly locked up.  I ran the mersenne prime
           torture test and had no problems.  So something is flakey, but how
           can I be sure it's the RAM, not the CPU?  My motherboard monitor
           reports in-spec temperatures and voltages both at idle and when
           running GIMPS.
           \_ Can you try a stick from another PC?
              \_ I have 2 different sticks in there now, both in use for at
                 least a year.  I'll try selectively pulling one later.  For
                 now I'm wondering about a good CPU-only stress test (like
                 one that uses only a tiny bit of memory and no mallocs() ).
                 \_ OK, I tried each stick on its own.  One crashes very
                    fast while the other takes a while.  So, either I have 2
                    bad DDR sticks, or something else is fucked.  Suggestions?
                    \_ It's your motherboard. Abit KG7s are know to be flakey.
                       Return it and get something not Abit, like a Gigabyte.
                       Abit + P4 + Via also has problems. I only recommend
                       Abit if it's the more expensive standard Intel chipset
                       version. Avoid Via chipset abits, especially if you
                       are using P4. Also, K series is known to be flakey.
                       You can try upgrading the BIOS and see if that helps,
                       but I never got one to work reliable, especially
                       on high load stuff.
                       -williamc
                                \_ I agree with williamc, I think it's
                                   my motherboard as well, but am too lazy
                                   to change it since my disks are raided. -ax
                       \_ BIOS is current.  I'm afraid you might be right.
                          Can you reccomend a stable MB for an 266FSB Athlon?
                          \_ I'v been using a GA-7VT600 gigabyte for
                             some time now with Linux/XP and no problems.
                             It's got a KT600 and it can support up to 400
                             FSB. BTW, the reason why your MB is flakey is
                             because of the chipset combo. It's a via/amd
                             solution that just doesn't work. Avoid combo
                             solutions like this. Plus, whatever you do
                             avoid the KT266 like the plague (older
                             via chipset). Your solution was due to the
                             KT266 instability (the A version doesn't help
                             matters much, just avoid any MB like this)
                             Via cleaned up its act aver the KT266 debacle
                             and Via+Athlon is pretty stable now. Via+P4
                             is the crap, especially the P880 series.
                             -williamc
                          \_ Motherboard having hardware issues does not
                             explain why it would lock up in some games
                             and not in others. Do you mean "flakey' in
                             some other fashion?
                             \_ Yes it does, I've seen this before on Linux
                                also. 90% of programs ran fine, even a
                                kernel recompile. But when we began to
                                load the system up with circuit simulations
                                the thing would segfault at random. It took
                                me a week of replacing parts to find out it
                                was the MB initially. What was interesting
                                was that stuff started to fail in succession.
                                First there was the segfault issue, then
                                all of a sudden kernel recompiles failed, then
                                the IDE controller went out for no reason.
                                Chipset problems usually only appear if you
                                stress the system long enough. That's why it
                                passes QA and gets put on the shelf. -williamc
                             \_ Presume that any game can lock the system by
                                sending a corrupt instruction to the video
                                driver or AGP controller.  Now if there's a
                                MB/chipset that is randomaly corrupting some
                                writes to main memory, a game which makes more
                                writes has more chances to get stung, and send
                                a corrupted instruction.  Just one explanation.
                                \_ Yeah, but shouldn't that mean that he
                                   should see Doom3 crashes sometimes as well?
                                   Less frequently yes, but none at all?
                                   Something else is happening that we are
                                   not quite understanding here.
                                   \_ RR Tycoon, Pirates, and Rome must have
                                      something different about them than GTA,
                                      Doom, and flightsim. Maybe he should try
                                      underclocking his FSB and see if things
                                      get more stable. Anyway the memtest
                                      indicates the RAM is the problem area.
                                      \_ Memtest doesn't report any problems,
                                         it flat-out locks the system. This
                                         is with 2 different RAM sticks. -op
                                      \_ No, you're wrong. It's the MB, plain
                                         and simple. Just because it appears
                                         as if it's a memtest problem doesn't
                                         mean it's not the MB. Trust me, it's
                                         the MB. I have direct experience
                                         with Abit K series MBs, I've seen
                                         stuff like the IDE controller going
                                         wonky, the serial ATA going wonky,
                                         the video AGP problem going wonky,
                                         etc. The memtest is only one
                                         symptom of basically a chipset
                                         problem. Hardware is complex, it's
                                         not like software where you can
                                         pinpoint stuff to one dll and say
                                         the bug is there. It's the MB, stop
                                         wasting time and just get it replaced.
                                         It costs $50. -williamc
                                         \_ Thanks for your help.  What do you
                                            think of this mobo:
                                            http://tinyurl.com/4ul8f
                                            \_ It looks fine, I've never had
                                               an issue with nvidia chipset.
                                               I've had some minor problems
                                               with MSI, though, but that's
                                               on the P4 side. Your athlon
                                               should be fine as long as
                                               you get a good board, MSI
                                               makes decent (but not really
                                               outstanding) boards. The
                                               nvidia I have running an athlon
                                               is an ASUS from last year.
                                               -williamc
                                            \_ Could also be the power
                                                supply?
                                               \_ Hardware monitor reports all
                                                  voltages 3-5% over spec. -op
        \_ Sounds like a virus.  Reformat and start over.
           \_ Are you sure?  Re-read the thread.
        \_ http://forums.eyo.com.au/arc/t-1142.html
           Relax your memory timings.  Reduce bus speeds.