11/19   [ peak oil idiot deleted. ]
        \_ ride bike and tuna over rice
           \_ all seafood contains cancer causing mercury.
              \_ Get a cat
                 \_ In Soviet Russia (and in the US, for that matter)
                    cat gets you.
        \_ some won't.  market forces will prevail.
        \_ perhaps a better question would be how will all  folks who've moved
           to the suburbs get by, where they don't even have a shred of a
           public transit system, and the people there live even further away
           from work than those in the bay area.  I can ride-bike+BART to work.
           Someone with a 'cheap house' in say Tracy doesn't ahve that option.
           \_ Never heard of the train, huh?  (ACE train runs from Tracy into
              the bay area.)
              \_ somehow I doubt that train woud have the capacity to handle
                 even a tiny fraction of the area's drivers.
                 \_ What, are we imagining what would happen if all the oil ran
                    out tomorrow?  What makes you think nothing would change?
                    \_ We have a very well-developed, efficient and high-
                       capacity public transit system in Zurich and its
                       suburbs, and there is no chance in hell it could handle
                       all commuters if gas ran out.  -John
                 \_ Barring some unforseen disaster, oil's not going to up and
                    'run out'.  What will happen is it will get progressively
                    more expensive.  The question is will we be able to adapt
                    to the increasing cost as fast as the cost increases or not.
                    Large infrastructure like public transit systems are
                    notoriously slow to adapt.
                 \_ So... you think that BART could handle all the Bay
                    Area commuters?  The poster said people in Tracy have
                    no way to get inside the Bay area besides car.  I said
                    that's wrong.  (It is)  I never claimed ACE train
                    could handle all commuters. That's dumb.
        \_ If that happens life will change.  People will work closer to home
           and will find ways to make that happen.  If food prices double
           people will stop eating out so damn much and learn how to cook
           again.  People adapt.  Life goes on.
           \_ And the world will always need fat sysadmins, so your complacency
              is justified.
              \_ I'm neither fat, a sysadmin, or complacent.  I'm just saying
                 things will get solved.  2x transportation cost and food costs
                 will mean things will change.  Life will change.
              \_ Somehow people got by in the 70s. Like many people, if
                 my transportation and food bills doubled it would mean
                 tightening belts, but not economic collapse.
                  \_ The US imported only 30% of oil supplies in the 1970s,
                     it's 60% and growing now.  And we are not talking a
                     temporary supply disruption, we're talking long-term
                     depletion -- Why are people who see this called "idiots"?
                     Have you done extensive research in this area, why is
                     there no counter-information except for the "market"
                     will fix the problem?
                     \_ Why can you not read?  Who are you responding to?  None
                        of you points have been brought up before.  (Except
                        the 70s one)
                     \_ Because the market always does, Chicken Little.  People
                        like you always show up, in every age, and see a crisis
                        in everything.  And somehow the market makes everything
                        work.  You d think you people would learn.
                        \_ The market "makes things work," only if you define
                           the term "work" in an insane way.  The market can
                           and will destroy lives and countries if it is
                           allowed to, and I think it's fair to say that the
                           USA is in big trouble when oil gets scarce.  I am
                           not convinced that this will happen in the next
                           few years, as some of the wingnuts do, but it will
                           few years, as some of the wingnuts are, but it will
                           certainly happen eventually.  -tom
                           \_ Don't you know?  "Makes things work" means
                              that everyone at least as rich as dubya
                              gets richer, the middle class disappears,
                              and the rest of America suffers.  It's eerily
                              close to Ross Perot's vision of America.
                              \_ That's the magic of the invisible hand!
                           \_ By your "destroy lives and countries" standard
                              the industrial revolution and the information
                              revolution were both bad things b/c they put
                              lots of people out of work and destroyed the
                              economies of countries based on agriculture
                              and mass employment in menial labor. In the
                              free world (ie everywhere except for Bezerkely)
                              the industrial revolution is considered a
                              good thing.
                              BTW, it seems as though you don't understand
                              the most basic rule of economics: as a rsrc
                              gets scarce, people start looking for alt.
                              and usually the alt. are MUCH cheaper than
                              the origial product. The trend over time is
                              that things get cheaper, better and more
                              reliable. That is how the real world works,
                              perhaps someday you can visit it.
                     \_ The US can pump more oil if it wants to. There is
                        a huge supply of untapped oil and every argument
                        you make for the US applies just as well to China,
                        Japan, or Europe. The world economy will not
                        collapse without oil. It will adjust.
                \_ The visigoths were just "free market forces"?
                        \_ Consider them "foreign investors"
        \_ Why is the peak oil guy an idiot? Don't you think that eventually
           we will start to run out? Why do you keep deleting this instead
           of answering it, coward?
           \_ You are an idiot because you don't understand how 'running out'
              works.  We ll never 'run out.'  There will be a gradual decline
              in cheaply obtainable oil, which will prompt people to move
              to other sources of energy.  Investments are already being
              made in this direction by big energy companies, and such
              investments will increase as oil becomes more expensive.
              You = alarmist fool.
              \_ "Start to run out" is not the same thing as "run out."
                 You have very poor English comprehension skills.
                 Your theory sounds almost exactly the same as the Peak
                 Oil guys, if you had bothered to read it, instead of
                 of just censoring it. Then again, maybe you did read
                 it and just didn't understand it.