11/18   Can someone give me a link on a survey of the public perception
        of different wars (ww2, vietnam, iraq) and why people feel that
        way? For example, why the average folks back in 1967 didn't
        care about bringing freedom to the S Vietnamese, but that
        we (at least 53% of the voters) think that the war on Iraq
        is a good thing?
        \_ Helloooo, I didn't know if you noticed, but in Iraq we
           actually conquered the whole country? Vietnam was like Korea,
           the U.S. didn't fight to win, they fought for a stalemate.
           The insurgency in Iraq is definitely troubling, but unlike
           Iraq you don't have a North Vietnam to deal with. The casualty
           rate is also much lower for U.S. troops this go around. In order
           to reach the casualty numbers of Nam we'd have to go at it for
           another 40 years.
           \_ It took Vietnam 15 years to rack up all those casualties, and
              we've only been in Iraw for about 1.5 years.  We're averaging
              maybe 3 deaths a day and I think about 4 times as many injuries,
              many of which are permanant and disabling.
           \_ We never conquered the whole country.  We deposed the government
              and disbanded their army, but roving bands of insurgents have had
              free reign in areas ever since.  We may be able to retake areas
              controlled by the insurgents, but we don't have enough men to
              control the whole country at once.
              \_ We can't even keep Afghanistan under control, but the
                 "liberal media" doesn't like to report what goes on over
                 there.  Do you have any idea the effect of the surging
                 opium growth in Afghanistan
                 \_ Oh man how I wish I was a heroin junkie right now.
        \_ WW2:  Pearl Harbor.
           Vietnam:  Draft.
           Iraq:  9/11.
           You don't need a survey.
           \_ WW2 had a draft also. But it also had a huge propaganda
              machine supporting it. If you think the US news media
              did too much to promote the Iraq war, that's nothing compared
              to how WW2 was promoted.
              \_ Pearl Harbor trumps Draft.
           \_ The draft was less important than the key question of "why are
              we fighting?" Plus the constant reassurance of victory by
              political leaders ("light at the end of the tunnel") was given
              a severe blow by the Tet Offensive and constant television
              imagery. Quiz time! Compare and contrast the impact the images
              of the RVN general executing a captured VC vs the US Marine
              killing the injured insurgent.
              \_ Tet was a major disaster for the NVA and VC.
                 \_ Nope, major success for the PVN, as it essentially won
                    them a huge PR victory (a) and wiped out most VC cadres
                    in the RVN which might have caused trouble after an
                    eventually PVN victory.  -John
                 \_ But it was a larger disaster for US political opinion.
                    At the time the US was talking about the end of the war
                    by Christmas. The month-long battle to take Hue back was
                    a huge slap in the face of the public.
              \_ Quiz response:
                 For Vietnam, the U.S. did not have Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
        \_ What about Korea? That's almost a forgotten war. Other than MASH
           nobody ever talks about it.
           \_ Korea was a war of great expectations. The US and most of the
              others who eventually joined were fighting against communism.
              The US and the rest of the world became war weary after the
              battleline stagnated. The question of "Why are we fighting?"
              came up again and US opinion were more than happy to settle
              for a tie.