11/11   What are the conservative and liberal stands/views on immigration?
        \_ If you live in California within the past 10 years you should
           know. If you are a newcomer then basically do a search for prop
           187 on google. It's the reason why we're a democratic state instead
           of being centrist conservatists like we were in the past.
           \_ prop 187 sounds like a 'conservative' proposition
              \_ Yeah.  Conservatives voted for it and liberal judges
                 overturned it.
        \_ liberals tend to be in support of policies favorable to immigration.
           conservatives tend to be against.
           unless you're george bush trying to do anything to get re-elected and
           thus attempting to appeal to the immigrant vote.
           \_ Actually, the answer is much more complex than this. Liberals
              don't support policies favorable to immigration unilaterally.
              The Union faction of the left is steadfastly against immigration,
              especially the H1B type. Conservatives, especially those in the
              central valley and up north where the vinyards are in Ca tend
              to favor lax immigration enforcement until they need it to
              drive the workers off after planting season. Conservatives also
              like H1B visas. At the same time, I'm pretty sure right wing
              nuts will want to kick out the H1B visas after they've slave
              labored them long enough, and organized labor wants to organize
              them after they get into the country so they can have another
              union.
                \_ I am curious as to what your classic liberals "let 'em in,
                   give 'em driver's licenses" and your classic conservatives
                   "build a fence, shoot on sight" think about the fact that
                   without tons of illegal immigrants, CA's agricultural and
                   hospitality industries would collapse.  -ohn
                   hospitality industries would collapse.  -John
                   \_ You have absolutely zero, (0, nada, nothing) proof that
                      either will collapse if all the latino illigal immigrants
                      were to be deported. There are probably enough legal
                      latino immigrants and actual latino americans born here
                      to easily fill those posts.
                      \_ This is so racist. I guess it's ok to stereotype all
                         Latino's as only capable of holding a low-level job.
                   \_ This is the 'A day without a Mexican' view.  I am sort of
                      of two minds about illegal immigration.  On the one hand,
                      I favor much looser standards for letting people in, on
                      the other hand, I really dislike illegal immigration on
                      principle.  An economy is an organic thing.  Had there
                      been far fewer mexicans coming illegally, the CA
                      economy would have
                      developed in a different way, so it's a little misleading
                      to give hypothethical situations where all mexicans
                      suddenly disappear. -- ilyas
                      \_ I basically agree with ilyas.  I think we ought
                         to put the cap on illegal immigration, but we
                         also need to rework the INS so the people we want
                         in can get in easily.  It's is currently very
                         hard to be legal, and very easy to be illegal.
                         \_ "very easy to be illegal..." I urge you to
                            discuss this with someone who has chosen to
                            come here as an illegal.  "Easy" is not how I would
                            describe their lives.
                            \_ Then their lives were difficult for other
                               reasons.  I've known plenty of illegal
                               immigrants who were illigal simply because
                               the system is so fucking broken that there
                               was no other way to immigrate.  I knew one
                               guy who finished his masters degree with a
                               fake social security number(while working his
                               ass off as a cook), *then* got a real ssn,
                               called the school and social engineered them
                               into switching his ssn to the real one, took
                               the citizenship test, and is now gainfully
                               employed as a citizen.  He is in pretty much
                               every way a model immigrant, yet he was illegal
                               for something like 10 years because that's
                               just how fucked the system is.  Going to
                               grad school while working full time as a cook
                               is hard.  Being "illegal" is not, if you
                               speak fluent English and are not a fucking
                               idiot.
            \_ what are the liberals view on illegal immigration and services?