11/9    I've been wondering about this. During the campaign, why doesn't
        Kerry just openly say that the war on Iraq is based on a lie,
        a lie the Bush administration knew from the beginning. The WMD
        was just something that would play nice with the general
        public, but they would've went in anyway, and because of their
        action, the united states is not any safer than it was before.
        Does this just not work with the general public? Were they
        afraid most Americans just don't want to hear the truth? Like
        when any company loses a court battle, they always deny any
        wrong doings, etc, but will pay?
        \_ Because he voted for it and later said he'd do the exact same
           thing even knowing that Saddam didn't have WMD.
           \_ When asked how she would have handled the war if she'd known then
              what she knows now, Senator Hillary Clinton retorted, "Well, we
              never would have had the war!"
        \_ Because the WHOLE WOLRD thought we'd find stockpiles! -Dubya
           \_ Except of course for Sean Penn.
           \_ Look up the countries who opposed the war, but who's
              intelligence agencies said there were stockpiles.
        \_ Because, even knowing everything we know today, it was still the
           right thing to do! -Dubya
           \_ Is it?
              \_ The majority of Americans think so!
                 \_ An uninformed majority is a mob.
           \_ The US under Bush is the biggest threat to world pace since
              Hitler. I think we should invade and take preemptive actions
              against ourselves!!
           \_ You've obviously never served.
              \_ Dubya served with honor in the Texas Air National Guard!
        \_ What about all the shit they teach you at school, you are
           innocent until proven guilty, that you can't punish someone
           for something they haven't done. Which is the foundation of
           our law enforcement system. Why don't we start arresting
           anyone who 'might' commit a crime? "Knowing what I know
           today, it was the right thing to do", fuck off.
           \_ The "innocent until proven guilty" premise does not translate to
              Presidents and heads of state who, because of the enormous effect
              of their mistakes, obsessions, and biases, are expected to be
              more circumspect in the employment of the destructive forces at
              their disposal.  The President *must* be willing to take
              responsibility for the errors he has made, especially when those
              errors result in the full deployment of our military; this is
              why Bush was very careful to shift the focus of the reason for
              war from the unproveable charge of WMD to the more popular goal
              of deposing Saddam Hussein.  If Bush had made this case prior
              to going to war, he would have simulataneously had a harder time
              getting support for the war and had a much more stable rationale
              for the war.  He erred.
              \_ they got Capone on tax evasion, we got Saddam on wmd usage
                 against the kurds..
              \_ And Dubya probably thinks the 2004 results were a stamp of
                 approval!
              \_ One of the things that people forget, or fail to
                 meantion, is that Bush CAN'T admit it was a mistake, even
                 if he thinks so himself.  Admitting the war was a mistake
                 would be such a morale shock to the troops, and the
                 country, it would be the equivalent of overtly saying,
                 "We're going to let another 10,000 or so troops die, and
                 then pull out leaving Iraq in a state of civil war and
                 disaster."  He touched on this in the debate when he said
                 he didn't think a president who thinks the war is a
                 mistake should be put in charge.  Morale is VERY
                 important.
                 \_ If Bush were truly concerned about morale, he should
                    apologize for not greeting the coffins of the fallen
                    soldiers who have died for their country.
                    \_ Dubya was visiting the wounded in Walter Reed yesterday!
                       [GOP]Karl_Rove p0wnz u!
                       \_ Yawn.  wounded != died.  Cf. "dictionary."
                          \_ Visiting wounded soldiers >> Greeting coffins
                             [GOP]Karl_Rove STILL p0wnz u!
                             \_ Obviously, you never served.
                \_ THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT CARL ROVE BETTED ON. Once we are
                   in war, there's only one option. You don't question why
                   until after the war, long after Bush is dead. FUCK BUSH
                   AND CARL ROVE.
           \_ Dubya took out Saddam -- someone who has used chemical weapons
              during war -- while he was small, before he could get big again.
              Dubya didn't even want to ask the UN, but Powell convinced him
              to try.
              Dubya also showed that the U.S. will do whatever it takes to
              anyone it deems a threat to the U.S.
              \_ Someone explain to be where the term 'Dubya' came from?
                 What does it mean?
                 \_ It's his middle initial, to distinguish him, George W.
                    Bush, from his father, George H.W. Bush.
              \_ Wow, that's almost straight from Andrew Card's mouth. Let's
                 review:  post-combat weapons inspections have revealed that
                 the sanctions were preventing Saddam Hussein from "getting
                 big again"; the campaign in *Afghanistan* showed that the
                 US will do whatever it takes to defuse those it deems a
                 threat; the debacle in Iraq has shown the world that anyone
                 can tie down the US military nearly indefinitely by prodding
                 the President's pride.  US military might is at its lowest
                 perceived competency level in decades.
                 \_ Wow, if only Kerry put it as convincingly in the debates...
                    But, Saddam was gaming the oil-for-food program, and
                    Dubya's people would say that he WOULD get big again
                    after sanctions were lifted since no WMDs would have been
                    found, Saddam would still be in power today, and we would
                    never have found out if he had them or not.
                    IMO, the U.S. should have been gaming Saddam, not the other
                    way around.  Instead, the U.S. broke all the rules and put
                    the hammer down on him when it found it was losing the
                    game.
                    \_ You're right, Kerry should have hammered him more than
                       he did.  Ah, well.  Anyway, sanctions would not have
                       been lifted because Bush would have had any attempt to
                       lift sanctions vetoed in the UNSC.  Furthermore, Bush
                       should have had the balls to call France and Russia on
                       their violations of the sanctions; robbed of his two
                       semi-allies, Hussein might have self-destructed faster.