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| 2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:34674 Activity:high |
11/4 I finally had time to track this down after the frenzy of the election.
Francis Blackwell Forbes [Kerry's maternal great-grandfather] was a
China merchant, opium trader and botanist. He and other members of
the Forbes family were active in the Opium trade and China trade
during the Opium Wars, amassing a large fortune. http://csua.org/u/9tm
My (Chinese) wife is now extremely sorry she voted for Kerry.
\_ Are you Chinese?
\_ Yes.
\_ And the actions of Kerry's ancestors matters because...?
And voting for a war-monger like Dubya is better because...?
And it matters even though Kerry lost because...?
\_ Are you Chinese? Do you understand the devestation the opium
traders wreaked on China? Did Kerry enjoy the benefits of
Forbes' opium trading? If not directly monetarily, how about
in terms of access, connections, vacations in family compounds,
etc.? Why would *any* Chinese vote for someone who extracted
(and continues to enjoy) benefits from the opium trade?
\_ Maternal great-grandfather... that's a pretty long time
ago. Let's try a little closer to home. Bush had
economic dealings with Osama.
\_ Did Kerry enjoy benefits from the fortune Forbes made from
the opium trade? Yes or no please.
\_ What if he did? Is that his fault?
\_ Jefferson owned slaves! Get rid of that damn constitution
and never vote Democrat again! -John
\_ And if you were black, and if Jefferson's decendent had
enjoyed benefits from the fact that Jefferson owned
slaves, then I would say that you would be justificed in
condemning Jefferson's decendent. So the question is,
did Kerry enjoy benefits because he was descended from
Forbes?
\_ The election is over. Kerry lost. Get over it.
\_ Yes, I am Chinese. Are you? Let it go. Move on.
\_ The question remains. Why would any Chinese vote
for anyone who enjoyed benefits from opium trader
money?
\_ Because of the 'markov moral property' --
Kerry just used money. That the money might
have been gotten in questionable ways by
his ancestors is not relevant. They are
dead, and conditioned on the money, the
actions of Kerry and their actions are
independent.
\_ Are you Chinese? Do you understand the effect
the opium trade had on China?
\_ Your argument style and bloody minded insistence
is suspiciously similar to Swift Boat guy. Yay
Swift Boat Guy!!!
--swift boat guy #1 fan
\_ Are you Chinese? Do you understand the effect
the opium trade had on China?
\_ Did it turn chinese people into raging
idiots?
\_ Are you the Swift Boat Guy?
\_ Because Bush is an even bigger ass who has
commited repugnant acts in the modern day?
Look, the choice is between douche and turd.
I choose douche.
\_ Are you Chinese? Do you understand the effect
the opium trade had on China?
\_ Are you an idiot? Do you understand that
typing the same question in three different
places on a thread makes you look like
one?
\_ You can't answer the question, can you?
\_ Yes, I can. That has no bearing on
Kerry, however. You really should
go back to ranting about Bill Clinton.
At least he was actually the
President for awhile.
\_ Uh, I already answered. Yes, I am Chinese.
Are you? The opium war is in the past,
okay? Let it go.
\_ Bush deceived the American people, embroiled us in a war based on
lies, and funnelled American taxpayer dollars into corporations that
donated heavily to his political party. Why would any American
vote for Bush?
\_ You need to read up on the history of the opium traders.
\_ You really need to open your fucking eyes.
\_ And the Bush fortune was based on trading with the Nazis. Which
was worse? The opium wars or the holocaust?
\_ It is this kind of crap that is destroying America. Your guy won.
Stop taunting and rubbing salt in the wound unless you want us
to block your every action for the next four years. |
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| csua.org/u/9tm -> encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Francis%20Blackwell%20Forbes Years: 1905 1906 1907 - 1908 - 1909 1910 1911 Decades: 1870s 1880s 1890s - 1900s - 1910s 1920s 1930s Centuries: 19th century - 20th century - 21st century 1908 in art 1908 in aviation 1908 in film 1908 in literature 1908 in music 1908 in science 1908 in sports 1908 in Canada List of state leaders in 1908 List of religious leaders in 1908 List of international organization leaders in 1908 ..... China This article is on the geographic and cultural entity. China (Traditional Chinese: , Simplified Chinese: , Hanyu Pinyin: Zh nggu, Wade-Giles: Chung-kuo) is an ancient cultural and geographic enti ty in continental East Asia with some offshore islands which since 1949 has been divided between the People's Republic of China (governing Mainl and China, Hong Kong, and Macau) and the Republic of China (governing Ta iwan and several outlying islands of Fujian Province). opium Opium (sometimes called GOM, an acronym for "God's o wn medicine") is a narcotic drug which is obtained from the unripe seed pods of the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum L or the synonym paeoniflor um). To harvest opium, the skin of the ripening pods is scored by a shar p blade. The slashes exude a white, milky latex, which dries to a sticky brown resin that is scraped off the pods as raw opium. Forbes family This article is about the Forbes f amily related to US Senator John Kerry. For information about the Forbes family associated with Forbes magazine, see Forbes family (publishers). The Forbes family of China and Boston, of which US Senator John Forbes Ke rry and John Murray Forbes are members, amassed a huge fortune in the Ch ina trade, initially trading North American furs and manufactured goods for tea and other goods from China. Opium Wars There were two Opium Wars be tween Britain and China, in the second of which France also participated alongside Britain: The growth of the opium trade (1650-1773) The Qing dynasty of China entered into a long decay beginning in the 1700 's, beset by increasingly aggressive foreign powers that clamoured for t wo-way trade with China. Europeans bought porcelain, silk, spices and te a from China, but could sell little in return. The drain on silver in Eu rope helped strain finances already squeezed by European wide wars. Due to his family's deep involvement with the opium trade and opium, Forbes developed a lifelong interest in the popp y and other plants, and in Chinese botany in general. John Murray For bes John Murray Forbes (February 23, 1813 - October 12, 1898), one of three b rothers sent by their uncle to Canton, amassed a fortune in the opium tr ade and China trade during the Opium Wars. His parents were Ralph Bennet Forbes and Margaret Perkins, youngest daugh ter of the Perkins family, a merchant banking family in the China trade. His father was an energetic but unsuccessful businessman w ho died when John was only six. Isabel Clarke Forbes Isabel Clarke Forbes was the daught er of William Mather Clarke, a banker. She and her husband, Francis Blac kwell Forbes, lived in China, London and Paris, and had five children: F . Murray Forbes, Ethel A Forbes, C Stewart Forbes, J Grant Forbes, an d Evelyn Forbes. James Grant Forbes James Gr ant Forbes (October 22, 1879 - April 24, 1955) was born in Shanghai, Chi na, where the Forbes family of Boston amassed a fortune from the opium t rade and merchant banking after the Opium Wars. He went to school in Eng land and graduated from Harvard University. Forbes was a successful inte rnational lawyer and banker. He married Margaret Tyndal Winthrop, who ca me from a family with deep ..... John Kerry Date of Birth: Saturday, December 11, 1943 Place of Birth: Aurora, Colorado Marriage: Julia Thorne, divorced Teresa Heinz Kerry, second wife Children: Alexandra Kerry, daughter Vanessa Kerry, daughter John Heinz IV, stepson Andr Heinz, stepson Christopher Heinz, stepson Profession: Lawyer Political Party: Democratic Party "Kerry" redirects here. Forbes family papers at Massachusetts Historical Society Description of papers from website: "A microfilm edition of manuscripts i n the collections of the Captain Robert Bennet Forbes House and the Mass achusetts Historical Society. The Forbes family was a distinguished nine teenth century Boston commercial family. While their papers are concerne d primarily with the China trade in the nineteenth century, the papers a lso give insight into American social history of the period. About half of the collection is the papers and letterbooks of Robert Bennet Forbes (1804-1889), sea captain, China merchant, ship owner and author. Other m ajor sections are the papers of Francis Blackwell Forbes (1839-1908) and James Murray Forbes (1845-1937), who were also China merchants. In addi tion, Francis Forbes was a specialist in Chinese botany. Consult the gui de to the collection for a biography of the Forbes family, a bibliograph y of books by or about the Forbes, a description of the collection, and an index to the correspondence." com, including general dictionary, medical dictionary, computing dictionary, legal dictionary, thesaurus, literature, geography, encyclopedia, and a ny reference data you agree to our full terms. com, including dictionary, thesaurus, literature, geography, and other reference data is for informational purposes only. This informati on should not be considered complete, up to date, and is not intended to be used in place of a visit, consultation, or advice of a legal, medica l, or any other professional. |