10/30   So, there's this buffoon who actually believes that chauvinist
        actually has a good point in committing barbarism on the
        motd. Too bad he didn't sign his post. I think it's pretty
        sickening that someone who supposedly went to Berkeley would
        think like this. Of course, we have John Yoo here on
        campus too. Perhaps you didn't know anyone who died in the towers
        in Lebanon. Perhaps you don't know anyone who died in the wake of a B2
        under a cluster bomb. Perhaps you didn't know anybody who was killed in
        Iraq. Unfortunately not all of us are as lucky as you are, and the
        loss of life and pain that many of us have suffered due to barbarism
        is not something which is fun to speculate about. You might sit
        in your ivory tower speculating about how moral and supreme your master
        civilization is, and how the supposedly free people are justified
        in barbarism, both of which are patently false statements because a
        chauvinist is neither rational nor is he free. There are self-
        righteous apologists who attempt to blame everyone but themselves,
        and unfortunately to the victims of barbarism and to those
        who knew them that answer is simply not acceptable. In
        response I can only offer you that I did know someone who was
        a victim, and it is close to home... I do not condone the
        retribution which others like OBL seek, but I cannot sit idly by while
        someone actually supposedly supports these monsters.
        -williamc
        \_ So, there's this buffoon who actually cannot seem to read, but
           does like to run his mouth. Too bad he signed his post. I think
           it's pretty sad that someone who supposedly went to Berkeley can't
           seem to read. Of course, we have other morons here on campus
           too. Perhaps he doesn't know any Iraqis who died in Iraq. Perhaps
           he doesn't know anyone who died elsewhere in the Middle
           East. Fortunately, most of us are probably as lucky as he is, and
           the loss of life and pain that many of those towel head foreigners
           have suffered due to US foreign policy is not something we should
           worry our pretty little heads about.  We might sometimes sit in
           our ivory towers speculating about how rational Bin Laden is, and
           how the supposed poor people might in fact believe they are
           somehow, someway justified in terrorism, both of which might
           conceivably be possible. There are Islamic apologists who attempt
           to blame everyone but themselves (and we all know they're
           personally responsible for all of this), and unfortunately to the
           victims of terrorism and to those who knew them that answer
           [whatever that means] is simply not acceptable. In response he can
           only offer us that he did know someone who was a victim, and it
           was close to home... he does not condone the retribution which
           others seek [again, whatever that even means], but he cannot sit
           idly by while someone actually supposedly supports these monsters
           [way to villify them -- someone's been playing a little too much
           Black & White].
        \_ Did this person actually condone the terrorist acts or merely
           agree that U.S. foreign policy tends to breed terrorists?
        \_ TROLL ALERT.
        \_ are you a Republican? Are you religious?
           \_ Heh, lookup "williamc" in the archives and ask that again.
        \_ when things went bad in Mogadishu many years ago, the Americans
           showed up thinking they were welcomed because they were going
           to bring peace, properity, freedom, women's rights, and
           everything that us westerners value dearly. Guess what? Every
           villager pretty much hated the Americans and killed them when
           they had the chance.
              The idea that western value is the best thing in
           the world and that everyone else should feel the same way, is
           Bush-minded. If the US is truely tolerant, it should just
           leave the world alone.
           \_ Nice try, no cigar.  The US in Somalia were hated by members
              of the various tribes/clans that had the most to lose.  It's not
              a question of "western values", my good friend.  It's the
              problem of how the US has sought to communicate/transmit/impose
              those values.  There are certain things going on in the world
              today that are just plain Wrong (tm) by anyone's cultural
              understanding, and you won't get away with the cheap trick of
              trying to hide them under local cultural quirks that must be
              tolerated by the evil imperialist West.  There's an interesting
              editorial by Youssef M. Ibrahim touching on this in this
              weekend's IHT; I strongly suggest having a read.  -John
        \_ I don't know what started this thread but if someone was saying
           the ~3000 dead people on 9/11 somehow deserved it due to some
           sort of 'collective guilt of the people' they need to pull their
           head out of the sand.  That's the polite version.  I'll leave it
           at that.