10/28   Mostly serious inquiry for BUSHCO supporters: If Bush were revealed to
        have a catamite back at the Crawford Ranch, would you still vote for
        him? If you are supporting him so that your dividends arent taxed,
        is it still about the money? On the flip side, would you Clintonistas
        have had a "problem" if Monica were say 15 ... I have to think the
        people who defended the Mark Rich pardon would stick with him through
        thick [monica] and thin. --psb
        \_ This is why I think there should be a mechanism in place to
           rescind the nomination and renominate on a dime.  Or have a
           succession plan, like the VP-hopeful becomes P-hopeful.  It seems
           silly to suddenly become a liberal for an election because a
           conservative ended up being unusually slimy this election season.
             -- ilyas
        \_ Pardons cannot be defended, as there is no offense.  The power
           of pardon, as abused as it might be is at the discretion of the
           President.  Some people are more discrete than others.  Personally,
           I'm a good deal more bothered by Bush I's pardons than Clinton's.
           \- is it not obvious i am not accusing him of doing something
              illegal but hypocritical, sleazy etc w.r.t. to the marc rich
              pardon. yes, this is not a great issue of state like the
              nixon pardon, but i think it significant for its egregiousness
              not its significance, if you see what i mean. --psb
        \_ Well, I'm male, so I'm not a Clitonista, though I was a stolid
                     \- You know, not all the Sandinistas were women.
           supporter of Clinton.  But to answer your question, if he'd been
           caught with a 15 year old, I'd have very sadly, and with much
           grief in my heart howled for his blood.
        \_ I don't think I count as a Clintonista, since I voted for Nader,
           but I supported him through the impeachment hearings. But if
           Monica had been 15, yes, I would have called for his hide.
        \_ What is catamite and why should I care? I vote republican
           not b/c of Bush. I vote for GOP candidates b/c I think
           that in the long run only republicans can return us
           to a "wise and frugal government" that restrains men
           from injurying one another, but otherwise leaves them
           free to regulate their own affairs.
           \_ example: invasion of Iraq :p
           I also feel that the major problems stem from stupid
           socialist policies brought about by democrats (New Deal,
           Great Society, &c.). Also Democrats will likely bring
           about crappy social policy like abortion on demand,
           legal pot, condoms for jr kids and garraige. I'm also
           appalled at the prospect of a more liberal judiciary
           that doesn't understand the fundamentals of federalism
           and willy nilly makes law.
           The last democrat I would have considered voting for is
           Truman (the only bad thing I can say about Truman is
           that he didn't let MacArthur win in Korea).
           \_ MacArthur wanted to use *WMD* on China.  Then again,
              if MacArthur can open fire upon USA's own WWI veterans,
              nuking civilians shouldn't be much of a moral challenge
              for him.
           \_ There's nothing frugal about Bush's government. The problem
              with your thinking is that you're voting based on a predetermined
              partisan mindset regardless of the actual candidate. You are also
              falling prey to GOP scare tactics on the garriage thing which is
           \_ MacArthur wanted to use *WMD* on China.  Then
              again, if MacArthur can open fire upon USA's own WWI
              veterans, nuking civilians shouldn't be much of a
              moral challenge for him.
              \_ MacArthur would have solved the China problem.
                 The Bonus March was probably not the smartest
                 thing to do, but I agree w/ MacArthur's view
                 that "we fought for our country, not for money".
           \_ There's nothing frugal about Bush's government. The
              problem with your thinking is that you're voting based
              on a predetermined partisan mindset regardless of the
              actual candidate. You are also falling prey to GOP
              scare tactics on the garriage thing which is
                                  \_ BUSH = DRAFT!!!!!```11one~uno!!!
              ridiculous.
                \_ Can you seriously tell me that any Democrat
                   will roll back the progressive income tax?
                   Can you honestly tell me that any Democrat
                   will reduce social programs? Which Democrat
                   will tell kids to stop taking drugs and
                   having sex and stay in school and study?
                   How many Democrats really advocate personal
                   responsibility? Also which Democrats truly
                   will put America first and go against world
                   stupidity (need I remind you that Democrats
                   were opposed to Zero Option and were pro
                   detente)?