10/21   Given that something like 30000 people die in the US from flu each
        year, this Chiron flu vaccine screwup could end up costing more lives
        than 911 or the SARS epidemic.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/nyregion/21vaccine.html
        \_ Yes, and with less John Edwardsian trial lawyers around and the
                         \_ fewer
           FDA not putting price caps on the shots, there would be more than
           1 American company creating the vaccine and there'd be plenty.
           Stop fucking with the marketplace so deeply and it'll be fine.
           Electing a trial lawyer to fix health care is worse than putting
           the fox on hen house security.  The fox can only eat 1 or 2 hens
           at a time.  The trial lawyer will kill everything.  Already has.
           \_ I'd rather have a trial lawyer in charge than a shill for the
              oil and coal industry.
              \_ Of your healthcare?  Whatever.  How's the beverage taste
                 this season?
        \_ So does America's idiotic car culture, yet somehow that's
           *never* an issue in mainstream politics.
           \_ Smoke...less...crack.  You have just managed to shit out one
              of the most classic stupid equations of all time.  No
              "car culture" causes deaths.  Bad drivers, bad luck, bad
              weather all lead to death.  Yes, having lots of traffic,
              including SUVs, tired truck drivers and aggressive rice-
               rocketeers is bad, but it is a reprehensible side-effect of
               of something good (i.e. personal mobility.)  The Chiron
               fuckup is the result of lack of foresight, bad planning,
               whatnot.  Don't try to compare the two.  Ever.  Now back to
               your cave, crazy troll man.  -John
               \_ Car culture leads to idiotic city planning, which leads
                  to longer commute times, which leads to more time in cars,
                  which continues to increase the carnage.
               \_ John, the vaccine fuckup is due to lawsuits and FDA price
                  caps.  We don't do central planning, Soviet style, here.
                  Yet.
                  \_ due to lawsuits... how do you fucking figure?
                     \_ due to the vaccine makers all getting their asses
                        sued and dropping out of the market due to liability
                        fears.  thats how i fucking figure.  why do you think
                        there is only *one* vaccine maker left for the flu
                        in the US now?  why do you think doctors are going
                        out of practice left and right?  liability. sheesh.
                        wake the fuck up.
                  \_ (1) referring to Chiron planning fuckups, (2) price caps
                     sure go in the direction of central planning for me...
                     \_ yes, check when those price caps were put in place and
                        the vaccine makers almost entirely stopped producing
                        in this country.  need a hint?
           \_ Call me crazy, but whenever someone answers "So does X,
              but X is never an issue in mainstream politics," my
              natural reaction is to ask, "Why the hell not?"
              \_ Well, I think the answer is that most people have
                 really warped ideas about risk.  People will happily
                 drive their car along a dangerous interstate to the
                 airport, then get all crazy about flying, which is
                 far safer.  Or launch huge campaigns about firework
                 safety on july 4th, trying to ban anything remotely fun,
                 when having drunk people try to cook meat in the hot
                 sun is probably far more dangerous.  People are
                 dumb.
                 \_ People fear risks they can't control much more than those
                    that they can, which makes sense on some level.  You can
                    control how you drive your car, but not what happens on an
                    airplane.  Fireworks injuries are more often in children
                    and immature 'adults'.  People are logically worried that
                    their kid will sneak some fireworks and blow his hand off.
                    And if the fireworks start a fire, that will damage the
                    property of innocent 3rd parties.  If you can control your
                    own risk, there's a lot less reason to petition the
                    government to control it for you.
                \_ Getting into a car wreck on a dangerous highway is more
                   likely to happen to a bad driver.  Since most people don't
                   believe they are bad drivers, this is "someone else's risk".
                   \_ I concur with this. -- ulysses