9/15    So, what's the deal with stem cell research?  I'm not too big on
        killing embryos for their stem cells, that's a little creepy.
        How old are the embryos when the are harvested?  I don't know
        anything about this topic, I'm just curious.
        \_ just another form of modern cannibalism
        \_ Troll alert.
           \_ Sheesh, it's not a troll.  I was out of the country when all
              that stuff went down.  Since when is asking for information
              considered a troll? -op
              \_ 1) Its an incredibly inflammatory topic, and very
                    emotionally charged.  So its already a questionable
                    topic of debate here or in any other internet
                    forum.
                 2) Its not currently in the news or under active
                    debate.  The US banned federal funding for it
                    and effectively ended active research.  Other
                    countries are going ahead and will likely
                    beat us on any effective treatments.  This
                    is not likely to change.
                    \_ I read a little about the Bush/Kerry stances on a
                       link off of slashdot.  I KNOW it's not in the news
                       NOW. That's why I don't know anything about it!
                 3) Your opinion that its a little "creepy" is
                    pure trollbait.  Throwing around loaded
                    adjectives like that without any opinion
                    of substance is just asking to be flamed.
                    \_ I don't have an opinion of substance because the
                       only response I'm getting to question on the
                       subject is "Troll alert!"  I thought MAYBE someone
                       in the CSUA might know something, but I guess not.
                       \_ Have you tried...Google?  Use the force, Luke!
                 4) Dangit, I think I've just been trolled.
        \_ OK, on the off chance you aren't trolling:  The embryos are usually
           harvested at the blastocyst stage, which is when they are a ball of
           several hundred cells.  I consider this to be such a far cry from
           being a baby that it's more like reproductive tissue.  Now, when
           women have abortions, some chose to donate the embryo for research
           purposes.  These embryos would be aborted anyway, so it's not like
           we're killing babies for medical research.  Prohibiting research on
           donated embryos to me seems like prohibiting organ donation from
           car crash victims on the grounds that you're benefiting from
           people's deaths.
           \_ Is using aborted embryos currently illegal?  That's seems
              silly to me as well.  On the other hand, I also read a bunch
              of stuff about the ethics of using Nazi spine research.
              Some people didn't like the idea of using research done by
              Nazis. (There's more to that story, but it's OT )
              \_ Not illegal, but there's no funding, so the effect is the
                 same: aborted embryos go to the trash.
              \_ Starting a troll topic on the motd: $5
                 Replying to your own troll topic: $100
                 Godwin'ing your own troll thread: Priceless.
                 \_ Best thing on the motd all week.
           \_ That's how these things always start, then a few years after
              it's legal you see ads "$1,000 for your fetus", then women
              getting pregnant just to donate their unborn children.  I would
              ask anyone to argue this is a good direction for society.
              \_ There are already laws against selling body parts.  Why not
                 ban organ donation because someone might commit murder to sell
                 their victim's parts?
        \_ Ron Reagan was talking about EMBRYONIC stem cells.  These are
           harvested from embryos that would be discarded anyway from a woman
           on fertility treatment.
           FETAL stem cells are from aborted fetal tissue, and is not what
           Ron Reagan was talking about.  Soda l05Er sez:  "when women have
           abortions, some chose to donate the embyro ..." -- that's "fetal
           tissue".
           \_ What's the difference if it's getting aborted anyway?
              \_ Pro-life people don't want to have anything to do with
                 abortion.  Embryonic stem cells are much farther removed from
                 abortion than fetal stem cells.  "Duh."
                 \_ Well if you're a serious pro-life person, a discarded
                    embryo from a fertility treatment is just as much a
                    "dead baby" as an aborted fetus.
                    \_ You will figure out the difference on your own.
                       \_ Oh, I see the difference in intent, but I don't see
                          much difference in outcome if you really believe
                          the 'soul' begins at conception.