Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33371
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2004/9/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:33371 Activity:high
9/6     How come GSG9 can't operate outside of Germany? And how are the
        special forces in the US compare to the ones in Israel? I have a
        feeling that US is lagging because we rely so much on smart weapons
        and technology and not really training people for the higher risk
        operations.
        \_ They can.  The German constitution has some very strict
           limitations on the foreign deployment of their armed forces. -John
           \_ No, they can not. They are not military.
              http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Germany/GSG9.htm
              As for Israeli military, http://www.isayeret.com has all the info
              you want.
              \_ They are a branch of the Bundespolizei, and they _can_ very
                 well, however their regulations have been amended
                 to state that they do not.  It is not inconceivable that
                 they would, though, seeing as how Bundeswehr troops have
                 been deployed more flexibly since then (Afghanistan, Kosovo).
                 And my use of the term "armed forces" was unclear and ill-
                 defined--I tend to think of these as including non-military
                 but related organizations.  -John
        \_ special forces ARE smart weapons, and US special forces are quite
           good.  the problem is deciding when and how much to use them to
           avoid wearing them out or diluting their skills through rushed
           training and recycling.  also, different politically installed
           operational rules affect the outcome, e.g. part of the Israeli
           special forces reputation comes from how they've been used.
           \_ Size don't matter, it's how you use it!
              \_ ...and other myths invented by small men.
           \_ I still remember the disaster at Somalia.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Germany/GSG9.htm
Note: GSG-9 no longer handles terrorist situations outside of Germany. They are now more akin to the US FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) in that they respond only to terrorist situations with Germany's borders. Operation Magic Fire Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (GSG-9) Formed: 1973 Headquarters: Hangelar, Germany GSG-9 was formed as a direct result of the inept response of German police to actions of Black September terrorists at the 1972 Munich Olympics. Following the end of World War Two, German authorities had been apprehensive about creating an elite military unit for any purpose. This, in addition to the desire to demonstrate to the world that Germany was no longer the fearsome entity it once was, caused planners to establish security that was as low-profile as possible. As a result, the terrorists were able to penetrate the Olympic compound, murder two athletes and take nine others hostage. The incident took an even worse turn when the on scene commander ordered his men to fire on the terrorists who were preparing to board two helicopters to effect their escape. Poor marksmanship, coupled with a number of snipers who refused to fire, led to the least desirable outcome - an open gun battle. When the smoke cleared on the Furstenfeldbruck military airfield, the nine remaining hostages and terrorists were dead. After this, the Germans vowed they would not be taken by surprise again and authorized the creation of a counterterrorist unit which was deemed operational in April 1973 - only six months after the incident at Munich. The only stipulation was that GSG-9 would be manned and controlled not by the military, but by the Federal Border Police Force (Bundesgrenzschutz) instead. One benefit that membership in the Federal Border Police provides to German government CT efforts is that these highly skilled operators can also conduct long-term infiltration of terrorist groups, which increases the potential for foiling any illegal act before it happens, rather than simply reacting after the fact. Selection for those interested in becoming GSG-9 members has always been demanding. In keeping with their strict charter, all recruits must be volunteers and all must come from the Bundesgrenzschutz. For those who are already members of the German Army (Bundeswehr), they must leave, then join the Border Police to become eligible. The first 13 weeks is spent learning the fundamentals of counterterrorism and police operations, including a ratio of academic work much higher than that found in most other CT units. This uniqueness is attributable to the additional responsibilities the GSG-9 trooper has as a member of the police, rather than the military. The last half is devoted to specialization of operator skills and advanced antiterrorist studies. Some graduates are later sent to attend NATO's International Long Range Reconnaisance Patrol (LRRP) School located in Weingarten, Germany. GSG-9 is currently broken down into three primary groups; These units a specialized according to these respective taskings; The first two have approximately 100 operators each, with GSG-9/3 manning only 50. The unit is currently based at Saint Augustin, near Bonn, where they share a medium-sized compound with the regular Federal Border Guard. Those who have visited the facility have returned with reports that would seem odd to the uninitiated. According to the unit's charter, money is no object when it comes to equipping the team with the latest weapons and equipment. This benefit does not apply to the room and board of the team members. For example, the food has been described as being poor at best and their quarters bordering on Spartan. This may seem unusual on the surface, however German soldiers have long prided themselves on exactly this situation. Operationally, GSG-9 has chosen the five man patrol as its principle combat unit. As previously mentioned, the troopers enjoy the full support of the government when it comes to their equipment. As such, they are issued not one, but two complete sets of combat gear. One of these sets is tailored to daytime operations, while the other is built around use at night. GSG-9, like many of the larger CT groups, also has it's own aviation unit, known as Bundesgrenzschutz Grenzschutz-Fliegergruppe. Unlike numerous other CT and SO units, GSG-9 members are not compelled to leave the unit after a set period of time. Rather, operators are permitted to stay for as long as they are able to maintain the group's high and inflexible standards. This policy is a logical one and has the added benefit of allowing the lessons learned by senior operators to be handed down to the newer members. As these 250 or so troopers fire over 1,000,000 rounds a year in training, it becomes obvious that the German government takes its investment in these soldiers quite seriously. June 1994 - German counterterrorist police attempted to effect the apprehension of Red Army Faction leader Wolfgang Grams. Later reports indicated that his death may have not occurred during the gun battle, but rather later when, it is alleged, GSG-9 troopers executed him shortly after subduing him. Retaliation followed when members of the offshoot group AIZ firebombed the home of a member of GSG-9. This action was remarkable due to the fact that any and all personal information regarding the identities of GSG-9 members is classified top-secret. The fact that AIZ members located such a target which suggests RAF/AIZ may have had assistance from an "inside" source. July 1994 - Called upon to effect the release of a warden who had been taken hostage at the prison at which he worked. The raid that ensued ended a 22-hour riot and resulted in the rescue of the warden without injury. KLM flight from Tunis to Amsterdam was hijacked by a single terrorist who demanded the release of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, who was being held in New York in connection with the World Trade Center bombing. GSG-9 operators were dispatched to the scene and managed to subdue the lone hijacker without firing a shot. An editorial in the normally critical Aachener Volkseitung praised the units restraint and called for their continued existence. Mention should also be made of a significant operation in which GSG-9 took part. September/October 1977 - The benefits of the newly-created unit came to fruition in 1977 when terrorists of the Red Army Faction took hostage German businessman Hans-Martin Schleyer. At the time, GSG-9 was a smaller unit, numbering about 180 total personnel. Nonetheless, they had undergone years of CT-specific training and had evolved into, at least in training, one of the best organizations of its kind in the world. RAF immediately demanded the release of 11 of their comrades-in-arms who were then being held in prison in West Germany. Despite attempts by the West German government to find a nation willing to take the terrorists, one month passed with no resolution. Finally, on October 13, French authorities reported that Lufthansa Flight LH 181 has been hijacked while en route from the Balearic Islands to Germany. The Boeing 737, with five crew and 86 passengers had changed course on the orders of an individual identifying himself as "Captain Mahmoud" - who would be later identified as known terrorist Zohair Youssef Akache - and was heading to Rome. The plane later landed in Rome, refueled, and flew on to Cyprus where Mahmoud demanded the plane be refueled again. Authorities in Rome permitted the refueling after threats from the terrorists that the aircraft would be blown up. By this time, word had spread about the hijacking and many governments had resolved not allow Flight LH 181 to land on their soil. Such was the case in Beirut and Bahrain where, in the case of Beirut, the runways were physically blocked with equipment to prevent an unauthorized landing. The pilot finally put down in Dubai despite government landing denials. The crew was able to communicate to ground officials that there were four terrorists on board. The strain on passengers and terrorists alike began to take its toll, and later that day, Mahmoud killed the pilot. Additionally, he postponed his original 4:00PM deadline to 2:45AM t...
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