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| 5/25 |
| 2004/9/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33328 Activity:very high |
9/3 The Russian siege did not end well.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm
Please, let's have a moment of silence.
\_ This shit sucks. How can we be winning the war on terror with
simultaneous horrors in Israel, Russia, and Iraq? Poor out a
40oz for these kids, and the people on those planes as well.
\_ You're a fool. Israel and Russias problems are not our
problems. The 'horrors' in Iraq are an active issue, troll,
which is why we call it the "war on terror", not the "we already
won it war on terror". Go away, troll. You're a sick fuck for
trying to turn this event into an anti-Bush diatribe.
\_ Israel's problems are not our problems? But the biggest
reason given for invading Iraq was that he "supported
terrorists" by which Bush meant Hamas vs. Israel. Have
you forgotten that already?
\_ No, the reason given was WMD. Have you forgotten that
already? And the terrorists he was talking about which was
a secondary reason was Al Qaeda. I think it's weird that
Al Qaeda has been found in Germany, Britain, France, Spain,
Florida, Texas, New York, and a few other places, but no,
no Al Qaeda in Iraq, no sirree!
\_ Go back and reread his SOTU address just before the
war. The big two were: 1) Iraq has WMD 2) Iraq is
allied with terrorists. This lead to his conclusion
that Iraq was a threat to the United States.
\_ Uh? You just confirmed what I said. Thanks! I
wonder if you even read what I said before you
replied.
\_ Not exactly. But you can claim that if you
want. One is not two, at least not in my
math book.
\_ They weren't even giving the kids water. Ugh.
\_ One more reason to justify the raid (even though the govt didn't
plan to do it.) Even if the hostage-takers didn't plan to blow
up everyone no matter what, the kids would soon start to die of
dehydration anyway.
\_ i was expecting over 1000 would die. what's the running total?
\_ Read the article. Currently up to 150.
\_ In Soviet Russia, you divide the number of hostages by 3.
\_ The Russians are just reaping what they sowed.
\_ You're a real cocksucker. Those kids didn't sow anything.
Nor did that Italian journalist, nor did the people in the WTC.
It sickens me that the governments of the most advanced,
richest nations of the world cannot summon the wherewithal
to find a few individual animals and send their intestines to
their families in tupperware buckets, which is exactly what
ought to be done with every fucking ogre who does something
like this. Not go to war, not declare a crusade, just
find someone guilty (there's enough broken fanatics) and set
an example or two. -John
\_ Amen, John. --erikred
\_ the kids didn't sow anything but Putin and the Russian
army did. Once they get their butts out of other people's
land, this will stop happening.
\_ No it won't. Viz. two French journalists kidnapped
despite craven & opportunistic French diplomacy regarding
"muslim" world. Your argument does not hold. These
fucks will not stop. And there is _no_ justification
for kidnapping children and other innocents, even if
"their" army is committing injustice. Hey, even the
fucking koran says so, go figure. -John
\_ It's stupid to think that conciliatory acts will prevent
all terrorist attacks, but it's also stupid to think
that it has no effect on the frequency of said attacks.
\_ no, it is stupid to think that bowing down to terror
will yield less instead of more. dead terrorists
don't kill children, genius.
\_ nah, chechen's terrorism is a direct result of
russian occupation. russian butchered hundreds of
thousands of chechens over the decades. There
wasn't any terrorist acts until the russian sent
in their army to crush chechen's legitimate
aspiration for having their own nation.
\_ Man, I can't wait for that that Native American
justice to start. Ask Me Why I Hate America!
\_ They already tried it 30 years ago. Go read a
book some time.
\_ are you saying it's right for US to kill
indians and take their land?
\_ You forget about the terrorists coming over the
Chechen border into Southern Russia. Russian
occupation falls under the same "preemptive war"
banner as the US in Iraq and Israel in Lebanon.
\_ No, it doesn't. Each situation is unique. It is
naive to say X == Y in all these very complicated
and often decades or hundreds of years old
conflicts. Go read a book.
\_ Well, the Chechens already basically won their
independence back in 1996. In 1999 Chechens invaded
the neighboring Russian state of Dagestan. This led
to Russia re-invading Chechnya.
\_ no, russia claimed victory in 1996 and still
says chechnya is part of russia. they have
never given up that claim, and then they used
a minor skirmish with some extremist chechen
group as an excuse to invade chechnya. note that
the extremist chechens were fighting the russian
army and not committing terrorist acts against
civilians.
\_ Hey look, the Russians took the advice given on the motd!
\_ No, a bomb accidentally went off in the gym, like I speculated
last night as the cause of the roof caving in.
\_ No, a bomb went off in the gym, like I speculated last night as
the cause of the roof caving in.
The roof did not cave because the CTs blew a hole in the wall.
The Ts started it; the CTs responded.
\_ The world is a safer place! -dubya
\_ I love when the socialists get cute and snarky! You always make
me laugh when you post your little one liners in a poor attempt
to make yourself feel smart. Keep them coming!
\_ It would seem that the primitive one liner scored. |
| 5/25 |
|
| news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm Printable version High death toll in Russia siege Girl being carried out of Russian school siege It is not clear how many hostages are free At least 150 people are reported to have died at a school in southern Russia where Chechen separatists had been holding hundreds of hostages. Dozens of corpses were seen outside a local morgue, and the number of dead is expected to rise further. Heavy gunfire and loud explosions were heard throughout the morning as Russian troops stormed the school, in the town of Beslan in North Ossetia. Russian troops are fighting to free children still held hostage. The BBC's Jonathan Charles in Beslan reports hearing more loud blasts in the area of the school after a period of relative calm. There is confusion over what sparked the operation, which was unplanned. Correspondents say the day's events have taken Moscow by surprise. Click here to see the layout of the school The BBC's Humphrey Hawksley in Moscow says there has been a wall of silence from President Vladimir Putin and his government. Meanwhile, US President George W Bush described the events as "another grim reminder" of terrorism. "We stand with the people of Russia, we send them our thoughts and prayers in this terrible situation," he said. Battle continues Aslanbek Aslakhanov, an aide to Mr Putin who has just arrived in the region, said the death toll would be considerably higher than 150. AT A GLANCE (TIMES IN GMT) 1700: Russia media says 646 taken to hospital, including 227 children 1608: Up to 1,200 may have been held hostage - Putin aide 1530: Putin aide says death toll may top 150 1514: Officials say some children still held hostage 1407: 10 hostage-takers killed in shoot-outs - Interfax 1330: Security services say their assault on school was not planned 1125: Security forces attack house where some rebels thought to be hiding - reports 0958: Special forces enter school 0930: School roof said to have collapsed 0905: Explosions and gunfire heard. At a glance: School siege Itar-Tass news agency said 646 people, 227 children, were taken to hospital during the day. Officials put the number of hostages at 354 before Thursday's release, but Mr Aslakhanov said up to 1,200 could have been held. He added that 20 hostage-takers had died in exchanges of fire with troops, at least nine of them Arabs. But several hours after the assault, a group of rebels, possibly including the group's leader, were still firing from the school's basement. Russian security officials said they had still been intending to negotiate with them before Friday's events unfolded. Eyewitness: Chaos as battle grips school "I want to point out that no military action was planned," said regional Federal Security Service chief Valery Andreyev. Security forces had opened fire to save the lives of hostages who were being fired on by gunmen, he said. It is unclear what caused the initial explosion, though one eyewitness told Russian TV that one of the bombs - which had been hung around the school gym by the hostage-takers - had simply fallen down and detonated. Witnesses later saw at least 100 bodies piled inside the school. White sheets Correspondents say many of those released were desperate for water when they came out, and some were barely able to stand. The attackers - both men and women, some wearing bomb belts - struck on Wednesday, the first day of the new school year in Russia. They demanded independence for the troubled region of Chechnya, where Russian forces have been involved in a bloody conflict with separatists for several years. The attackers start firing at the children to try to block their escape. |